Detroit draft question

[WyoBuccNasty]

I don't see why every post i see here has them taking a QB...every mock draft site also...but my question is..Kitna had his first yr in detroit under a new offense like he had never played in before...and heres the results

Passing
PASS YARDS
Att Cmp Pct Tot / TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat
596 372 62.4 4208 21 3.5 22 3.7 63 79.9


I saw the resigning of Furrey as a clear sign that the offense is on the path they want it to be..with the help of a good Saftey..which there are a few in the draft..and some oline help i think they are in great shape..look for Kitnas numbers to improve and also expect not to see them take a QB on draft day...


Thoughts?

[Legacy]

Kitna did do well in Detroit, but he's 34. He'll be retiring soon. Their backups are Dan Orlovsky and Josh McCown. Orlovsky is a project player for them, but I don't think he's ready to be a starter. I'm not sure about McCown.

I think either Russell or Quinn will be good fits for their system up there. Their other draft options are CJ and Joe Thomas. I doubt they'll take either of them, considering their pitiful track record with recievers in the first round, and the fact that they already have three young tackles. Trading down is a possibility, but they've got a shot at taking two good QBs that will fit well into their system. It'll be hard for them to pass up.

[WyoBuccNasty]

oline is there issue man..if you go back and watch any game from them they lost it was the issue..

Try Sacks Allowed...Thats where a Martz Offense needs a good line

#1 Indy 15 -- Glenn Rnd #1 pick 19
#2 Balt 17 -- Ogden Rnd #1 pick 4
#3 Wash 19 -- Samuels Rnd #1 pick #3
#4 NO 23 -- Brown Rnd #1 pick 13
#5 NYG 25 -- Whitfield Rnd #1 pick 2
#5 Chi 25 -- Tait Rnd #1 pick 14

And where are the Lions OL??


-- #31 with 63 Sack Allowed!!!

yes kitna is on his last 2 yrs as a pro IMO so skip it this yr or address it in free agency..ride him this yr and let him mentor a new kid in 08

[WyoBuccNasty]

So with that..it will throw off a lot in the draft..if they take oline or CJ which direction do we go??

[Legacy]

I never said their O-Line wasn't a problem, but they've already got young guys at the tackle position. Throwing another young player in there probably won't help one bit. They need some experience on that line to help the younger guys out. Of the 8 linemen on their roster, 5 of them are under 25 years old.

Getting a QB now will be more beneficial in the long run, since Quinn or Russell would be able to learn the system under Kitna and be ready to start in a year or two. This will give them time to build up the O-Line, too. They need balance here. Throwing youth on the line isn't going to help them any more than continually throwing an aging vet into the QB position is.

[#1BucsDefense]

So with that..it will throw off a lot in the draft..if they take oline or CJ which direction do we go??

They won't take CJ. After all the WRs taken in the 1st round by them, their fans would riot if they took another WR in the 1st round. Besides, they already have two good WRs in Roy Williams and Mike Furrey. I'd say they take either Joe Thomas or Brady Quinn.

[WyoBuccNasty]

They won't take CJ. After all the WRs taken in the 1st round by them, their fans would riot if they took another WR in the 1st round. Besides, they already have two good WRs in Roy Williams and Mike Furrey. I'd say they take either Joe Thomas or Brady Quinn.


thomas or levi brown is who i see them taking

[UMiamiBucFan]

I think they will be high on trading down, and they could find a partner for someone who wants CJ. And while they do have Jeff Backus at LT with a long term deal, they could move him or Joe Thomas to RT.

I am absolutely convinced they will not draft Quinn. Especially with Mike Martz there. His quarterbacks have been Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Jamie Martin, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Trent Green. Of those, none were a first round pick. He likes very particular traits in his QBs, but its his system that is successful.

[#1BucsDefense]

thomas or levi brown is who i see them taking

No way its Levi Brown. Joe Thomas will definetely be the first OT taken in the draft.

[Sailing2Smth]

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they draft Joe Thomas and opt not to draft a QB in this paticular year's draft.

[dawgland]

oline is there issue man..if you go back and watch any game from them they lost it was the issue..

Try Sacks Allowed...Thats where a Martz Offense needs a good line

#1 Indy 15 -- Glenn Rnd #1 pick 19
#2 Balt 17 -- Ogden Rnd #1 pick 4
#3 Wash 19 -- Samuels Rnd #1 pick #3
#4 NO 23 -- Brown Rnd #1 pick 13
#5 NYG 25 -- Whitfield Rnd #1 pick 2
#5 Chi 25 -- Tait Rnd #1 pick 14

And where are the Lions OL??


-- #31 with 63 Sack Allowed!!!

yes kitna is on his last 2 yrs as a pro IMO so skip it this yr or address it in free agency..ride him this yr and let him mentor a new kid in 08
you might want to see who their starting LT is, and see what round he was drafted in before you go saying stuff

they're weak in the middle of the line, not the outside, jon scott played pretty well considering he was a rookie

thats why quinn is the logical pick, and they can look to a guard later in the draft and through FA

and there is also some rumors regarding kevin jones' injury, so i'm not sure peterson is out of the question for them

[DeadEagle]

I think they will be high on trading down, and they could find a partner for someone who wants CJ. And while they do have Jeff Backus at LT with a long term deal, they could move him or Joe Thomas to RT.

I am absolutely convinced they will not draft Quinn. Especially with Mike Martz there. His quarterbacks have been Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger, Jamie Martin, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Trent Green. Of those, none were a first round pick. He likes very particular traits in his QBs, but its his system that is successful.


I agree about the QB position and Mike Martz. I also see the Lions poised to select Joe Thomas and deal with the situation with Jeff Backus when camp comes around. They'll find a way to get them on the field. I'm my head, there's no other logical selection at #2 for them if they can't trade out.

[DeadEagle]

and there is also some rumors regarding kevin jones' injury, so i'm not sure peterson is out of the question for them


What are the details around that injury anyway?

[dawgland]

What are the details around that injury anyway?
i'll find it later, i've only got a few minutes before i have to go to another class

[UMiamiBucFan]

I agree about the QB position and Mike Martz. I also see the Lions poised to select Joe Thomas and deal with the situation with Jeff Backus when camp comes around. They'll find a way to get them on the field. I'm my head, there's no other logical selection at #2 for them if they can't trade out.
I think it will depend on who is at #3 on whether they can get a trade down. If Cleveland gets #3, teams will likely trade with Cleveland to get CJ. If the Bucs get #3, teams will try to trade with the Lions. Although, I'm not entirely sold that Cleveland won't take CJ.

[dawgland]

I think it will depend on who is at #3 on whether they can get a trade down. If Cleveland gets #3, teams will likely trade with Cleveland to get CJ. If the Bucs get #3, teams will try to trade with the Lions. Although, I'm not entirely sold that Cleveland won't take CJ.
thats the interesting point at the end

WR isn't a huge position of need but PS goes BPA often, and thats what CJ would be

but he'll likely try and trade out if he gets that pick

[UMiamiBucFan]

you might want to see who their starting LT is, and see what round he was drafted in before you go saying stuff

they're weak in the middle of the line, not the outside, jon scott played pretty well considering he was a rookie

thats why quinn is the logical pick, and they can look to a guard later in the draft and through FA

and there is also some rumors regarding kevin jones' injury, so i'm not sure peterson is out of the question for them
Really I think that they have the most unique situation in the top 5. They don't want a rookie QB, they already have a good LT, and they have decent depth at WR (not to mention how bad the Millen bashing would get). So if you rule out Russell, Quinn, Thomas and Johnson, that leaves you with Alan Branch, Adrian Peterson and Gaines Adams. IMO, only Peterson is worthy of the #2 overall, and even then they already have a good RB and Peterson doesn't have the receiving skills of Kevin Jones.

Really, for such a bad team, the top positions in the draft don't fit their needs at all.

[UMiamiBucFan]

thats the interesting point at the end

WR isn't a huge position of need but PS goes BPA often, and thats what CJ would be

but he'll likely try and trade out if he gets that pick
WR isn't really a huge position of need for us either, but Allen/Gruden have drafted in the past based on need as opposed to BPA.

I think everyone other than the Raiders and Cardinals want to trade down out of the top 5. And there could be some trade partners as the Texans and Vikings both have needs at QB and WR. The Cardinals might also want to trade up to secure Joe Thomas.

[JamesWilder32]

I don't see why every post i see here has them taking a QB...every mock draft site also...but my question is..Kitna had his first yr in detroit under a new offense like he had never played in before...and heres the results



I saw the resigning of Furrey as a clear sign that the offense is on the path they want it to be..with the help of a good Saftey..which there are a few in the draft..and some oline help i think they are in great shape..look for Kitnas numbers to improve and also expect not to see them take a QB on draft day...


Thoughts?

I think that is the point, Kitna played like he never played before, he isn't getting any better, or younger for that matter...

For those that think the Lions are good in the OT spots, they are... decent anyways... 2nd year manJohnathan Scott can always be improved upon (he only had a few starts last season anyways) and considering his feet and movement skills he would probably fit best at OG where Jeff Backus might (if he isn't extremely opposed to the switch) be much better suited to RT.

Of course Thomas can go to the right side as well...

If Lions want Peterson they will likely trade down but truthfully most smart teams figure you can pick up a RB pretty cheap in most rounds or as a free agent, recently in the past 5 seasons only the stupid teams have drafted RBs in the top 5 just like smart teams don't draft safeties in the top 10.

[#1BucsDefense]

If Lions want Peterson they will likely trade down but truthfully most smart teams figure you can pick up a RB pretty cheap in most rounds or as a free agent, recently in the past 5 seasons only the stupid teams have drafted RBs in the top 5 just like smart teams don't draft safeties in the top 10.

Yea, what were the teams that drafted

Ronnie Brown
Cadillac Williams
LaDanian Tomlinson
Jamal Lewis
Edgerrin James
Marshaul Faulk
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson

thinking when they drafted those RBs in the top 5?

[JamesWilder32]

Yea, what were the teams that drafted

Ronnie Brown
Cadillac Williams
LaDanian Tomlinson
Jamal Lewis
Edgerrin James
Marshaul Faulk
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson

thinking when they drafted those RBs in the top 5?


Wow, you're really smart, no go reread my post, it says that the teams drafting RBs in the first 5 picks in the past FIVE seasons are stupid...

And yes, Carnell Williams is a bust and we were stupid for drafting him, especially considering his injury history at Auburn, his lack of size, and his inability to catch the football, 3 things he has never disproven at the NFL level.

[JamesWilder32]

Ronnie Brown-decent player but hasn't impressed
Cadillac Williams-sucks
LaDanian Tomlinson-drafted in 2001
Jamal Lewis-drafted in 2000
Edgerrin James-1998
Marshaul Faulk-1994 or so (?)
Barry Sanders-1989
Eric Dickerson-1983

Wow, you do a really good job of making it easy to disprove your point...

All of these guys are either average or slightly above average (the top 2) or wsa drafted 6 years or more ago... I said 5 years...

And by the way, Williams and Brown are not any of those other players, they never played like those players in college, they never carried their teams the way those guys in college did and they will never play as well as any of those guys did in the NFL.

[#1BucsDefense]

Ronnie Brown-decent player but hasn't impressed
Cadillac Williams-sucks
LaDanian Tomlinson-drafted in 2001
Jamal Lewis-drafted in 2000
Edgerrin James-1998
Marshaul Faulk-1994 or so (?)
Barry Sanders-1989
Eric Dickerson-1983

Wow, you do a really good job of making it easy to disprove your point...

All of these guys are either average or slightly above average (the top 2) or wsa drafted 6 years or more ago... I said 5 years...

And by the way, Williams and Brown are not any of those other players, they never played like those players in college, they never carried their teams the way those guys in college did and they will never play as well as any of those guys did in the NFL.

So over 5 years ago you couldn't get a good RB in the later rounds, but now you can? Ok, let me follow your logic. There hasn't been a great CB, OT, DT, TE, OG, C, or LB drafted in the top 5 in the last 5 years, so no team should draft any of those positions in the top 5 either. That's why you look at more than 5 years or at least the top 5 when evaluating positions.

Oh, and of the guys I listed, 2 are HOFers, 2 are future HOFers, Edge was a great back for a long time (still is pretty good), and the other 3 are pretty good.

[JamesWilder32]

So over 5 years ago you couldn't get a good RB in the later rounds, but now you can? Ok, let me follow your logic. There hasn't been a great CB, OT, DT, TE, OG, C, or LB drafted in the top 5 in the last 5 years, so no team should draft any of those positions in the top 5 either. That's why you look at more than 5 years or at least the top 5 when evaluating positions.

Oh, and of the guys I listed, 2 are HOFers, 2 are future HOFers, Edge was a great back for a long time (still is pretty good), and the other 3 are pretty good.
Yeah, nice #'s, genius, but my post said: most smart teams figure you can pick up a RB pretty cheap in most rounds or as a free agent, recently in the past 5 seasons only the stupid teams have drafted RBs in the top 5
Can you read that or do I have to put it in braille?

[#1BucsDefense]

Yeah, nice #'s, genius, but my post said: most smart teams figure you can pick up a RB pretty cheap in most rounds or as a free agent, recently in the past 5 seasons only the stupid teams have drafted RBs in the top 5
Can you read that or do I have to put it in braille?

Well of course, if a team is smart enough, they can pick up a good player at any position in the later rounds or as a free agent. At any position I could name a great player that was picked up in later rounds. But you have to draft somebody in the first round, and sometimes you don't want to pass up a great RB.

[maryjanewatson]

I don't see why every post i see here has them taking a QB...every mock draft site also...but my question is..Kitna had his first yr in detroit under a new offense like he had never played in before...and heres the results

Passing
PASS YARDS
Att Cmp Pct Tot / TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat
596 372 62.4 4208 21 3.5 22 3.7 63 79.9


I saw the resigning of Furrey as a clear sign that the offense is on the path they want it to be..with the help of a good Saftey..which there are a few in the draft..and some oline help i think they are in great shape..look for Kitnas numbers to improve and also expect not to see them take a QB on draft day...


Thoughts?

He's 34 and threw more INTs than TDs.

Rule 1.
Paragraph 1.
Sentence 1.

If you don't have a franchise quarterback, and you have the opportunity to draft one, you do it.

The Lions and Raiders both broke this rule recently. The Raiders drafted Robert Gallery instead of Rivers or Roethlisberger, and Michael Huff instead of Leinart or Cutler.

Now they have the #1 pick in the draft.

The Lions drafted Mike Williams instead of Aaron Rogers and Ernie Sims instead of Leinart or Cutler.

Now they have the #2 pick in the draft.

Class dismissed.