Taking the draft into our own hands!

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

Insead of letting the Browns & Vikes srew us with a trade, what if we jumped over the Browns, and talked to our old pal Rod and Lions! Let me explain... if they want either of the top two QBs, one will there at 4. With AP having such a great combine, the Browns won't take Thomas so he will be there also, the Lions pick CJ with the #2 pick to secure him for us! Then when our pick comes around we pick Quinn, Thomas, or Russell. Trade him to the Lions for the rights to CJ! I don't know how much more we would have to spend, but the Giants & Charger pulled it off, why can't we! THOUGHTS PLEASE! :cool:

[dawgland]

moron, cleveland isn't trying to screw anybody, we're trying to get extra picks

we'd gladly make a trade that involves a 3/4 swap and then some

[BucFanInKC]

NTM that the Lions have a need for a QB. CJ isn't worth a number two overall pick anyway.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

moron, cleveland isn't trying to screw anybody, we're trying to get extra picks

we'd gladly make a trade that involves a 3/4 swap and then someFirst of all DAWG you can save the name calling! I was simply stating that in order for us to get CJ we need to make something happen, not let something happen. That's why I don't post much because people like you seem to be so defensive. CHILL OUT MAN!

[UMiamiBucFan]

Moves like that are the ones that keep teams picking in the top 5...

[UMiamiBucFan]

I don't know how much more we would have to spend, but the Giants & Charger pulled it off, way can't we! THOUGHTS PLEASE! :cool:
So you want to pull of a trade like the one that netted the Chargers QB Phillip Rivers, LB Shawne Merriman, and K Nate Kaeding...while the Giants got the inconsistent Eli Manning.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

Moves like that are the ones that keep teams picking in the top 5...What do you mean?

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

So you want to pull of a trade like the one that netted the Chargers QB Phillip Rivers, LB Shawne Merriman, and K Nate Kaeding...while the Giants got the inconsistent Eli Manning.Totally different UM

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

NTM that the Lions have a need for a QB. CJ isn't worth a number two overall pick anyway.Why not?

[UMiamiBucFan]

Totally different UM
As sure fire as CJ is, we have way too many needs to be GIVING UP more picks for him.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

As sure fire as CJ is, we have way too many needs to be GIVING UP more picks for him.Ok agreed, we do have alot of needs, but we shouldn't have to give up as much as the Giants. I'm thinking swap 2 and 4 as well as pick 68 should be enough, maybe add a 5th. But we will have to deal with the big raise with the contracts, going from 4th to 2nd! I think that would work. Any position we don't get in the draft, we get in FA, there will be players avilable.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Ok agreed, we do have alot of needs, but we shouldn't have to give up as much as the Giants. I'm thinking swap 2 and 4 as well as pick 68 should be enough, maybe add a 5th. But we will have to deal with the big raise with the contracts, going from 4th to 2nd! I think that would work. Any position we don't get in the draft, we get in FA, there will be players avilable.
#2 has an overall value of 2600
#4 has an overall value of 1800

#68 and a 5th would not be enough, and frankly, I'd be unwilling to even give up that much. Way too many holes.

[Psykes]

CJ isn't worth a number two overall pick anyway.
I found this quite funny.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

#2 has an overall value of 2600
#4 has an overall value of 1800

#68 and a 5th would not be enough, and frankly, I'd be unwilling to even give up that much. Way too many holes.So just for kicks, what would be enough?

[UMiamiBucFan]

So just for kicks, what would be enough?
Well, we'd have to produce 800 pts to make up the value. Our #35 pick is worth 550 pts and our #68 is worth 250 pts, which combined would be the 800 pts on the dot.

So essentially, our first rounder, our 2a pick and our 3rd rounder for Calvin Johnson.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

Well, we'd have to produce 800 pts to make up the value. Our #35 pick is worth 550 pts and our #68 is worth 250 pts, which combined would be the 800 pts on the dot.

So essentially, our first rounder, our 2a pick and our 3rd rounder for Calvin Johnson.I read your post about the point system but to lazy to search, good post though! It makes sense, but I still think it's worth it because CJ is one big freak!, I like Thomas too, but a guy like this is to good to pass up! Like I said it will be players in the FA pool!

[UMiamiBucFan]

I read your post about the point system but to lazy to search, good post though! It makes sense, but I still think it's worth it because CJ is one big freak!, I like Thomas too, but a guy like this is to good to pass up! Like I said it will be players in the FA pool!
But this is an incredibly weak free agency pool. There is no defensive line talent, one half decent linebacker, 1 great DE/LB, 2 good Gs, an underachieving LT, and a handful of speedy wide receivers. In reality, the only position we can surely bolster in free agency is safety.

Stop drooling over CJ and think about how he fits in from a team prospective. We have a lot of needs, like C, LT, QB, UT, DE, WLB, CB, S...all of those rank as higher needs than WR. You want to give up 3 players for CJ. That's 3 needs we could have filled for a luxury pick.

Of those needs I just listed, there is no way we can fill UT, LT, or DE through free agency, there are just no prospects there (unless you want to count Leonard Davis, but he's really a guard, not a tackle). We can likely get a veteran QB, and we could make a play for Cato June as a WLB, but he's not a very sure tackler. We might be able to fill CB, but we'll have to spend a lot to do it.

We need those picks to revitalize our aging defense. Giving up 3 players just to make sure we get CJ is a sure fire way to continue our losing ways. I'm okay with drafting CJ at #4, but trading up for him is just ridiculous. Ignore the hype machine and really look at what is realistic from a team prospective.

[Master inChief]

I read your post about the point system but to lazy to search, good post though! It makes sense, but I still think it's worth it because CJ is one big freak!, I like Thomas too, but a guy like this is to good to pass up! Like I said it will be players in the FA pool!
You're an idiot. give up 2 first day picks for something that MAY happen?

[BisonBacker]

Moves like that are the ones that keep teams picking in the top 5...
So we'll always be loaded with top talent. Gruden DOES know what he's doing. Take that, haterz.

[NoAlibi]

Calvin Johnson is worth any two players in this draft.

[QuebecBuccsFan]

Calvin Johnson is worth any two players in this draft.

I don't think so, I really really really like CJ, but I would take Alan Branch and Brady Quinn before CJ.

And we're talking about our 1st, 2a and 3rd pick so it would be 3 players for CJ, not 2.

[NoAlibi]

I don't think so, I really really really like CJ, but I would take Alan Branch and Brady Quinn before CJ.

And we're talking about our 1st, 2a and 3rd pick so it would be 3 players for CJ, not 2.

We wouldn't have to give up #4 and both 2nd rounders first of all...

2nd of all...CJ is the only player in this draft that's at superstar status...In fact, there's two guys: CJ and Patrick Willis...If your draft class doesn't include one of them, you failed for the day.

Oh, Adrian Peterson is up there too, if he can stay healthy.

[QuebecBuccsFan]

We wouldn't have to give up #4 and both 2nd rounders first of all...

2nd of all...CJ is the only player in this draft that's at superstar status...In fact, there's two guys: CJ and Patrick Willis...If your draft class doesn't include one of them, you failed for the day.

Oh, Adrian Peterson is up there too, if he can stay healthy.

I never said our 2 second rounders. I said a 2nd and 3rd

1(2) = 2600 points
for
1(4) = 1800 points
2(3) = 550 points
3(4) = 250 points

That's what we have to give to go to number 2 overall

The rumors are talking about a trade for the Browns and the Vikings. Here's what the Vikes would have to give to get the Browns pick :

1(3) = 2200 points
for
1(7) = 1500 points
2(9) = 490 points
3(8) = 230 points

It's a lot to give for a WR, even if it's a very good one. And if the Browns make that trade Houston can still jump in front of them to take Adrian Peterson.

You don't see trades for one of the top 5 pick very often and I think it's unlikely this year too. There's a lot of team who want to trade down but not a lot of team who want to give 3 prospects for one unproven player.

Plus, there's a lot of great WR this year in the first round so why give 3 picks when you can draft a good one later.

And for the Buccs, we have no reason to trade up. The Raiders can't take CJ if they keep Moss, Porter and Curry and with all the needs they have, especialy at quaterback. So they have to go with Russell or Quinn.

Millen will be the laughing stock of the NFL if he takes another top 10 WR and Marinelli will want to draft defense so it's very unlikely they will take him.

And Cleveland is the team with the biggest RB need in the NFL and Adrian Peterson is by far the best in the draft. Why would they take a chance by trading down.

So there's a good chance that CJ will fall to us at #4. If it's not the case, then too bad and we will draft Quinn, Branch, Anderson or Adams. We have too many needs to trade up. Even if it's for the next Jerry Rice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't want CJ here. If he's available and Gruden/Allen pass on him, I will become a Gruden hater in a minute, but I don't think we should trade for him.

[CPT_FEAR]

NTM that the Lions have a need for a QB. CJ isn't worth a number two overall pick anyway.

WWWWWWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT?????????

Man, he's the absolute best player in the draft and the best WR prospect of the last years. How can't he be worth a #2 pick. Also if you are not worth a #2 pick, how can you be worth a #3 or 4 pick?

[BucFanFrom1976]

So there's a good chance that CJ will fall to us at #4. If it's not the case, then too bad and we will draft Quinn, Branch, Anderson or Adams. We have too many needs to trade up. Even if it's for the next Jerry Rice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't want CJ here. If he's available and Gruden/Allen pass on him, I will become a Gruden hater in a minute, but I don't think we should trade for him.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Let's not go crazy and give up to much for him, remember he didn't win a national championship at GT for a reason, the team wasn't good enough. It's a team game and he's just one member of it. You guys are making it sound like he can win a game all by himself. We need to fix a team, not a position. If we can get him great, if not we still have some pretty special players to choose from.

[BucFanFrom1976]

WWWWWWWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT?????????

Man, he's the absolute best player in the draft and the best WR prospect of the last years. How can't he be worth a #2 pick. Also if you are not worth a #2 pick, how can you be worth a #3 or 4 pick?

The problem with a WR picked that high is that they don't touch the ball enough times in a game. A QB touches the ball every play, a RB touches the ball 20 or so times a game, a really good WR will touch it maybe 8-10 times a game. Thats why the QB and RB position are rated higher than a WR as far as position value goes. The LOT position is also rated at a high premium because they are so hard to find. Thats why CJ may fall to us at 4 even though he grades out as the best player in the draft. His position isn't as coveted as the other guys. Remember Keyshawn is the only WR ever drafted with the #1 pick.

[deltbucs]

Insead of letting the Browns & Vikes srew us with a trade, what if we jumped over the Browns, and talked to our old pal Rod and Lions! Let me explain... if they want either of the top two QBs, one will there at 4. With AP having such a great combine, the Browns won't take Thomas so he will be there also, the Lions pick CJ with the #2 pick to secure him for us! Then when our pick comes around we pick Quinn, Thomas, or Russell. Trade him to the Lions for the rights to CJ! I don't know how much more we would have to spend, but the Giants & Charger pulled it off, why can't we! THOUGHTS PLEASE! :cool:
You, sir, are an idiot. I can't believe that we have to explain to you why this is such a stupid idea.
Are you really going to make a thread like this and come at me with this in the other thread?



I really like Chris Davis out of FSU for a late rounder.

Somebody's gem!

I'm still waiting to hear what's so stupid about that by the way.

[Da Bucs GM]

...........

[The Future]

No that would be a bad move for the Lions, what if the Raiders took Quinn? The Lions wont trade the best player in the draft for Joe Thomas either.

[NoAlibi]

If we can get him great, if not we still have some pretty special players to choose from.

name them

[dawgland]

First of all DAWG you can save the name calling! I was simply stating that in order for us to get CJ we need to make something happen, not let something happen. That's why I don't post much because people like you seem to be so defensive. CHILL OUT MAN!
sorry but when you start out with this as the first thing you say...

Insead of letting the Browns & Vikes srew us with a trade
then ask for thoughts, you're going to get them

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

You, sir, are an idiot. I can't believe that we have to explain to you why this is such a stupid idea.
Are you really going to make a thread like this and come at me with this in the other thread?



I'm still waiting to hear what's so stupid about that by the way.Some of you guys really kill me with all of the name calling, like opinions don't count for anything if it's not what you want to hear! Anyway, are you asking me about Chris Davis? I said that, whoever lands him, is going to have a nice player! Don't add live Chris, you're going to get picked but it won't be in the first.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

sorry but when you start out with this as the first thing you say...


then ask for thoughts, you're going to get themYour right, it's cool though.

[deltbucs]

Some of you guys really kill me with all of the name calling, like opinions don't count for anything if it's not what you want to hear! Anyway, are you asking me about Chris Davis? I said that, whoever lands him, is going to have a nice player! Don't add live Chris, you're going to get picked but it won't be in the first.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I think what you were trying to agree with me about Chris Davis in the other thread. If so, then I apologize. I took your comment the wrong way.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

But this is an incredibly weak free agency pool. There is no defensive line talent, one half decent linebacker, 1 great DE/LB, 2 good Gs, an underachieving LT, and a handful of speedy wide receivers. In reality, the only position we can surely bolster in free agency is safety.

Stop drooling over CJ and think about how he fits in from a team prospective. We have a lot of needs, like C, LT, QB, UT, DE, WLB, CB, S...all of those rank as higher needs than WR. You want to give up 3 players for CJ. That's 3 needs we could have filled for a luxury pick.

Of those needs I just listed, there is no way we can fill UT, LT, or DE through free agency, there are just no prospects there (unless you want to count Leonard Davis, but he's really a guard, not a tackle). We can likely get a veteran QB, and we could make a play for Cato June as a WLB, but he's not a very sure tackler. We might be able to fill CB, but we'll have to spend a lot to do it.

We need those picks to revitalize our aging defense. Giving up 3 players just to make sure we get CJ is a sure fire way to continue our losing ways. I'm okay with drafting CJ at #4, but trading up for him is just ridiculous. Ignore the hype machine and really look at what is realistic from a team prospective.Ok we have needs, but what team deosn't? We would only really be giving up two players with a trade, let's not count the first rounders, because it's like a swap. This is one of the deepest drafts ever! There will be good players in later rounds I think could help with some of our holes. We don't have a bad team, picks some young guys that fit, one or two good FAs and we are right back in it! There will be more players to choose from in the free agent pool come March 2nd.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Ok we have needs, but what team deosn't? We would only really be giving up two players with a trade, let's not count the first rounders, because it's like a swap. This is one of the deepest drafts ever! There will be good players in later rounds I think could help with some of our holes. We don't have a bad team, picks some young guys that fit, one or two good FAs and we are right back in it! There will be more players to choose from in the free agent pool come March 2nd.
This is NOT the deepest draft ever. There is some quality 2nd round talent, but after that the talent is a SIGNIFICANT drop off. Last year was a way better draft.

And if you think we don't have a bad team, then you didn't see what happened on the field last year.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

This is NOT the deepest draft ever. There is some quality 2nd round talent, but after that the talent is a SIGNIFICANT drop off. Last year was a way better draft.

And if you think we don't have a bad team, then you didn't see what happened on the field last year.No... not THE deepest, but ONE of the deepest and one of the fastest drafts in some time now. I watched all of the games last year (season ticket holder direct tv) painfully, and I think the coaching sucked last year! The worst I have seen since Gruden been here. Now I'm not for bashing the coach, because it is what it is, but players need leadership, and Gruden didn't provide that this year. That's the reason for the bad play last season.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Your still giving up 2 good players just to "make sure" we get CJ. Its incredibly foolish. You obviously have an optimistic view of the players on this team. They overachieved in 2005 and the defense gave their last gasp.

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

Your still giving up 2 good players just to "make sure" we get CJ. Its incredibly foolish. You obviously have an optimistic view of the players on this team. They overachieved in 2005 and the defense gave their last gasp.You're right I'm very optimistic about some of our players. Every team needs a superstar to get them over the hump, we have a couple of probowlers but they're on the other side of the ball, adding a future probowl type of player will make everyone better. Add good players in later rounds to a D that still has one more top 10 year in them at best. Remember the three big names that were tagged this year, can't be tagged again after next year, making them UFAs! We won't suffer another year like 06 with CJ.

[Bucko40]

The only way we make a deal with the Lions is a player and pick swap. That would have the Lions dropping to 4th and getting a player and then the Bucs selecting 2nd.

This scenerio only happens if the Raiders don't take CJ at #1.

[NoAlibi]

name them

well?

[cadillac willy]

Raiders announe they are keeping Moss and Porter. Release Aaron Brooks. No way they draft Calvin. Too many things can happen in the top five to trade down.

For instance, last year when the Texans passed on Bush. What do you think would have happened if the Saints traded down? The organization would be so upset with that move.

If the Raiders take Quinn then the Lions would have Jamarcus Russell, Thomas, and CJ to choose from.

If the Lions pass on Russell again, then the Browns would have the chance to grab Russell.

This is why virtually no one trades down in the top 5. Swapping picks in the top 5 is like smoking a cigarrette by a gas pump.

Too much to lose.

[BucsBoy24]

This is NOT the deepest draft ever. There is some quality 2nd round talent, but after that the talent is a SIGNIFICANT drop off. Last year was a way better draft.

And if you think we don't have a bad team, then you didn't see what happened on the field last year.
Last year was a once in a decade draft, they don't happen too often