Gruden and Simms visit CJ in ATL

[Howard Huge]

From the For What It's Worth Department ...

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2007/04/13/0414johnson.html

[Buc_40]

interesting stuff...im sure Calvin made Clayton look below average :D

[dawgland]

"going to do the best we can to make it right"

i smell a trade up

[deltbucs]

"going to do the best we can to make it right"

i smell a trade up
If so, Chucky is going to smell some knuckles in his face!

[jpim]

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511

Friday was a busy day for the Buccaneers front office, coaches and players. General manager Bruce Allen, head coach Jon Gruden and, very interestingly, quarterback Chris Simms and wide receivers Michael Clayton and David Boston flew to Atlanta on Friday morning for a private workout with Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson. The Bucs don't stop there, either. Now it's on to Notre Dame for a private workout Saturday with quarterback Brady Quinn, and then on to LSU for a private workout with quarterback JaMarcus Russell. Russell, whom many project to be the top overall choice in the April 28 draft, is keeping his own busy schedule. Russell arrived Thursday night in Oakland for a visit Friday with the Raiders.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Sounds like quite the busy weekend.

[BUCjeff21]

Gruden, in street clothes and a leather jacket,

now that's style!

[MasterSinic]

now that's style!

Nope. That's a smokescreen:

http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=139273

[BearLandBucFan]

Nope. That's a smokescreen:

http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=139273

I suppose Carnell was a smokescreen

SF didn't really want Alex Smith...

dude get off of your smokescreen garbage

because the best smoke and mirrors is the media has us believeing in them

of course teams try to sell interest in a player... or downplay other interest

We are looking at almost every playr in top 6 or 7

so I guess they are smokescreens as well

maybe we are smokescreening everything and going to trade our First ROund Pick for a player

:rolleyes:

[cadillac willy]

All i can say is this.

That will not be the last time Gruden, Johnson, and Simms are on the same football field.

[BucandCane]

What a fun road trip that must be. So Quinn and Russel will be throwing passes to Clayton and Boston. Will they make the QB's look good?

[cadillac willy]

"going to do the best we can to make it right"

i smell a trade up

i'm sorry to say it, but I actually agree with dawg here.

after reading that, it looks almost inevitable.

[xljohn316]

All i can say is this.

That will not be the last time Gruden, Johnson, and Simms are on the same football field.

And all standing on the sidelines watching together, too.

[cadillac willy]

And all standing on the sidelines watching together, too.

haha.

yes, when our D is on the field.

It's more like Garcia, Johnson, and then Gruden watching over them.

[real bucs fan]

If we have to trade up to select CJ, than we gotta do what we gotta do.

We are in the best position to trade up with Detroit, since the Lions FO sure knows that is they are planning on tradeing down and selecting defence that if they move behind us, and CJ is gone when we pick, that we might very welll take their man.

That is why I am hoping we can get a bit of a deal if we do move up. Next years 2nd, would be well worth it.

[no1bucsfan29]

I wonder if they just had Boston and Clayton there to knock Simm's passes down and see if CJ got frustrated since that's how it would be in a real game.

[real bucs fan]

I wonder if they just had Boston and Clayton there to knock Simm's passes down and see if CJ got frustrated since how it would be in a real game.

:lol: :rotf: :mad:

[Sublime]

Nope. That's a smokescreen:

http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=139273

I think you're right and on draft day when the commissioner says, "...The Tampa Buccaneers select Calvin Johnson from Georgia Tech". Everyone will say the Bucs meant to take him, but we'll know it was a smokescreen. Then no one will ever know who Gruden was truly interested in. Wow... he is a freaking genius.

[BearLandBucFan]

I think you're right and on draft day when the commissioner says, "...The Tampa Buccaneers select Calvin Johnson from Georgia Tech". Everyone will say the Bucs meant to take him, but we'll know it was a smokescreen. Then no one will ever know who Gruden was truly interested in. Wow... he is a freaking genius.


if you say everyone is a smokescreen enough... sooner or later you probably will get it right...

;)

[cmill216]

"You could see how talented he is," Simms said after the workout at Tech's practice field. "Even when I threw him bad, he adjusted so easily, he made me look good."

:lol:

[mr.fusion]

i'm sorry to say it, but I actually agree with dawg here.

after reading that, it looks almost inevitable.

mark my words......

swap first round picks.......we give up simeon and the 32nd pick in the 2nd

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

mark my words......

swap first round picks.......we give up simeon and the 32nd pick in the 2ndI would rather give up BK before Rice, if it came down to it.

[BearLandBucFan]

I would rather give up BK before Rice, if it came down to it.


I was never a big fan of Burger King either.... FLame Broiled... bah! Fat Broiled

[Shh-DontWakeEm]

I was never a big fan of Burger King either.... FLame Broiled... bah! Fat Broiledhahaha

[BucFanFrom1976]

mark my words......

swap first round picks.......we give up simeon and the 32nd pick in the 2nd

If we do it. Thats what I was thinking. Then we draft a DE with 2A. CJ could be a once in lifetime player, we should do what it takes to get him within reason.

[no1bucsfan29]

mark my words......

swap first round picks.......we give up simeon and the 32nd pick in the 2nd
Please tell me you don't think Detroit would be willing to give us a 2nd rounder for a washed up one deminsional pass rushing DE that is coming off of a season ending injury, and has a huge money contract...

To move up would cost us our 1st, both seconds, and a 5th. With your trade, you are saying detroit is giving us the value of a high 2nd and high 5th for Rice. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick in trade for Rice form any team in the league.

[BucJordan]

Please tell me you don't think Detroit would be willing to give us a 2nd rounder for a washed up one deminsional pass rushing DE that is coming off of a season ending injury, and has a huge money contract...

To move up would cost us our 1st, both seconds, and a 5th. With your trade, you are saying detroit is giving us the value of a high 2nd and high 5th for Rice. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick in trade for Rice form any team in the league.


Peel your eyes from the value chart. Couple reasons the trade could work:

a) This isn't any other team, it's Marinelli, he knows Rice and knows him well
b) Detroit has no leverage. If they trade down its to get their best rated defensive player and they'll probably take him at #2 as well if needed. Maybe Quinn also but that doesn't much affect us getting Calvin either.

[BucsBacker]

Simms said after the workout at Tech's practice field. "Even when I threw him bad, he adjusted so easily, he made me look good."

If we actually get the chance t odraft CJ, he better get used to the bad passes.

[no1bucsfan29]

Peel your eyes from the value chart. Couple reasons the trade could work:

a) This isn't any other team, it's Marinelli, he knows Rice and knows him well
b) Detroit has no leverage. If they trade down its to get their best rated defensive player and they'll probably take him at #2 as well if needed. Maybe Quinn also but that doesn't much affect us getting Calvin either.

Detroit has all the leverage as they will have the option to draft that you guys call the best WR to ever be in the draft. Remember, it's the Bucs that will want to trade up, not the lions who feel they HAVE to trade down.
As for Marinelli knowing Rice, you are correct, he also knows he's one deminsional, past his prime, getting old, and his salary is outrageous.

[mr.fusion]

Please tell me you don't think Detroit would be willing to give us a 2nd rounder for a washed up one deminsional pass rushing DE that is coming off of a season ending injury, and has a huge money contract...

To move up would cost us our 1st, both seconds, and a 5th. With your trade, you are saying detroit is giving us the value of a high 2nd and high 5th for Rice. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick in trade for Rice form any team in the league.

help for no1bucsfan29 (http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm)

cool down sweetcheeks..........
we have the 32nd pick in the draft......its going to COST US the 32nd pick in the second rd and simeon to move up 2 spots

they would only be moving two spots, which means they would still get either joe thomas or brady quinn.........and all wed be giving up is a disgruntled aging de that wants to be in detroit (his words) and a glorified 3rd..........

the only thing keeping this from happening right now is whether or not oakland takes CJ at #1.........

[Bucko40]

"going to do the best we can to make it right"

i smell a trade up

I hate giving up draft picks but if it nets us Calvin Johnson then I'll have to live with it. Barring injury this kid is going to be a special player in the NFL.

My Bucs big board still looks like this:

Joe Thomas
Calvin Johnson
Brady Quinn
Gaines Adams
Laron Landry

[CrunkBuc4d1]

help for no1bucsfan29 (http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm)

cool down sweetcheeks..........
we have the 32nd pick in the draft......its going to COST US the 32nd pick in the second rd and simeon to move up 2 spots

they would only be moving two spots, which means they would still get either joe thomas or brady quinn.........and all wed be giving up is a disgruntled aging de that wants to be in detroit (his words) and a glorified 3rd..........

the only thing keeping this from happening right now is whether or not oakland takes CJ at #1.........

If CJ is there at # 4 fine, but don't give up any draft picks for him. Save those picks to package with some 2008 picks to move to the first round and get Okoye, Carriker, Jamaal Anderson or Anthony Spencer.

[MasterSinic]

cool down sweetcheeks..........
we have the 32nd pick in the draft......

You must be a Colts fan.

[no1bucsfan29]

help for no1bucsfan29 (http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm)

cool down sweetcheeks..........
we have the 32nd pick in the draft......its going to COST US the 32nd pick in the second rd and simeon to move up 2 spots

they would only be moving two spots, which means they would still get either joe thomas or brady quinn.........and all wed be giving up is a disgruntled aging de that wants to be in detroit (his words) and a glorified 3rd..........

the only thing keeping this from happening right now is whether or not oakland takes CJ at #1.........

I'll try this again, I'll even type slower so maybe you can understand it to. I'll even try to keep my words small just for you.

Detroit will not trade their number 2 overall pick for our 1st, our low 2nd, and Rice. In any trade would not worth more than a 4th rounder. He's old, he's coming off a season ending injury, and he has an attitude. He is also known as a "ME" player instead of a team player.

To get that 2nd spot, we would have to give them our 1st, both 2nds, and a 5th. If we use Rice, we may get it for our 1st, out first 2nd, and our 3rd plus Rice. Either way, hopefully this trade doesn't happen, trading 3-4 1st day picks for one player is a waste of draft picks, even if that player is CJ, who has done nothing in the NFL to prove that he worth it.

D O Y O U U N D E R S T A N D N O W ?
**EDIT**
*Sorry for that big word in the last sentence. I meant to say, do you get it now?*

[Psykes]

if you say everyone is a smokescreen enough... sooner or later you probably will get it right...

;)
Yeah... Just remember to make a thread about your first guess, then spread out other subsequent guesses in different threads (but be sure to bookmark each when it turns out that YOU WERE RIGHT!) ;)

[Psykes]

Joe Thomas
Calvin Johnson

As much as I dislike Petitgout's pass blocking, I don't think it'd be reason enough for us to pass up on CJ for Thomas.

[no1bucsfan29]

As much as I dislike Petitgout's pass blocking, I don't think it'd be reason enough for us to pass up on CJ for Thomas.
Pass blocking is Petitgout's main strength. He is a very good pass blocker.

[jpim]

all this is well and good, and I'd like CJ in TB as much as the next guy, but talking trades with Detroit is back-burner material, IMO. It's pretty much 50/50 right now on Oakland nabbing him. If they do go with Russell/Quinn then the only reason for us to trade up to 2 or 3 is to prevent someone else from doing so.

[cadillac willy]

I know i've said this before, but this year I really think Al Davis takes a QB instead of a fast, freakish WR.

JaMarcus has FREAKISH arm strength. This is the one draft where Al Davis gets what he needs (a QB) and what he wants (freakish arm power.)

Something just tells me this is the type of player that Al Davis really wants.

[Psykes]

Pass blocking is Petitgout's main strength. He is a very good pass blocker.
Yeah, hear-say is great.

I've actually watch the Giants a lot, and these past few years he certainly wasn't up to par. On top of the sacks given up he loves to false start and hold: additional indications that his pass blocking is (or at least was, since we're trying to think well of him now) shotty at best.

Plus, in 7 of the 9 games he played this season, he had either a penalty or a gave up a sack. Didn't give one up against Indy (week 1, when Tiki ran for 110 yards), and against Washington (week 4 after their bye) when Tiki ran for 123 yards.

[UMiamiBucFan]

I know i've said this before, but this year I really think Al Davis takes a QB instead of a fast, freakish WR.

JaMarcus has FREAKISH arm strength. This is the one draft where Al Davis gets what he needs (a QB) and what he wants (freakish arm power.)

Something just tells me this is the type of player that Al Davis really wants.
See this is what I don't understand about the Raiders this year...

Al Davis loves to throw it deep, Lane Kiffin loves vertical offenses too...but then they hire Greg Knapp as OC?! He's a WCO kind of guy. If he installs the offense he's run the past few years, then Brady Quinn makes more sense. Which would probably coincide with what the rumors have been. No 1 on their board is Calvin Johnson by a large margin, and the rest of the team is split between Russell and Quinn on the top QB. I have a feeling that Davis likes Russell and Knapp likes Quinn.

[BucJordan]

Detroit has all the leverage as they will have the option to draft that you guys call the best WR to ever be in the draft. Remember, it's the Bucs that will want to trade up, not the lions who feel they HAVE to trade down.



I don't think thats necessarily true at all. I think Detroit is looking for a defensive player anyway and dropping down 2 spots for an extra 2nd would be ideal because they'd still be assured that guy. I think they DO want to trade down, it's basically a free player for them instead of overpaying defensive talent.

Oh and point out where i said CJ is the best WR ever to be in the draft. I don't seem to remember that, but I'll wait.

[mr.fusion]

In any trade would not worth more than a 4th rounder.

priceless

[nsn666]

im suprised noone has said johnson clayton and boston will be the starting recievers next year!

[no1bucsfan29]

priceless
Reality is priceless. If Rice is traded, it won;t be for more than a 4th rounder. i'm sorry that your heartthrob is only worth a 4th in trade value, but, that's what happens with over the hill one deminsional pass rushers that are coming off a season ending injury.

[no1bucsfan29]

I don't think thats necessarily true at all. I think Detroit is looking for a defensive player anyway and dropping down 2 spots for an extra 2nd would be ideal because they'd still be assured that guy. I think they DO want to trade down, it's basically a free player for them instead of overpaying defensive talent.

Oh and point out where i said CJ is the best WR ever to be in the draft. I don't seem to remember that, but I'll wait.
Again, what is to stop Detroit from grabbing Johnson, then trading to whatever team gives up the most? Then teams like the patriots, denver, greenbay, etc etc, who may not have the picks needed to get up there, would be back in the running for the kid, because they could throw in a variety of things in a mix of players and picks in next years draft. If detroit drafts Johnson, they could basically hold him hostage, to get the #2 pick, we would have to pay a huge ransom. We are the team that wants to move up, Detroit can get whoever the want at #2. They hold ALL the cards.

[maryjanewatson]

Again, what is to stop Detroit from grabbing Johnson, then trading to whatever team gives up the most? Then teams like the patriots, denver, greenbay, etc etc, who may not have the picks needed to get up there, would be back in the running for the kid, because they could throw in a variety of things in a mix of players and picks in next years draft. If detroit drafts Johnson, they could basically hold him hostage, to get the #2 pick, we would have to pay a huge ransom. We are the team that wants to move up, Detroit can get whoever the want at #2. They hold ALL the cards.

No, they don't.

What if we say we're unwilling to make an outlandish deal? What if they were to get stuck with his $50 mil contract? What if they blow a chance at the guy they really want, or if the only teams that will deal with them can't put them in a position to get the guy the really want? What if Matt Millen has tries to trade CJ and can't, and then has to go back to Detroit with a guy they didn't want who KNOWS they don't want him??

They only hold all the cards if we let them.

[mr.fusion]

Reality is priceless. If Rice is traded, it won;t be for more than a 4th rounder. i'm sorry that your heartthrob is only worth a 4th in trade value, but, that's what happens with over the hill one deminsional pass rushers that are coming off a season ending injury.

Now I understand....your peanut sized brain cant full understand who is getting what in this scenario

Bucs get
#2 Overall pick

Lions get
#4 overall pick
#64 overall pick
Simeon Rice

Just explan to me where I have said that Simeon Rice would be traded for a second round pick????

[no1bucsfan29]

Now I understand....your peanut sized brain cant full understand who is getting what in this scenario

Bucs get
#2 Overall pick

Lions get
#4 overall pick
#64 overall pick
Simeon Rice

Just explan to me where I have said that Simeon Rice would be traded for a second round pick????
Wow, can you really be this dumb?
Look at the value chart. To get to number 2, we have to give up our 4th pick, our 35, our 64, and a 5th rounder to come close. For Detroit to make the trade you are talking about, that means Detroit would be equalling Rice to the 35 pick, and the 141st pick in the draft.

Do you get it now? I don't how much easier I can make it for you.

[no1bucsfan29]

No, they don't.

What if we say we're unwilling to make an outlandish deal? What if they were to get stuck with his $50 mil contract? What if they blow a chance at the guy they really want, or if the only teams that will deal with them can't put them in a position to get the guy the really want? What if Matt Millen has tries to trade CJ and can't, and then has to go back to Detroit with a guy they didn't want who KNOWS they don't want him??

They only hold all the cards if we let them.
Who says they don't want him? CJ is by far the best player in the draft, why wouldn't Detroit want him? With everyone thinking that Detroit wants a defensive player, they must think they feel comfortable at QB. So if they feel comfortable at QB, why not give that QB the best WR to come along in years?

Fact is, Detroit holds the cards, they might prefer to trade down and go defense, but if the right offer didn't come along, I bet they would be just as comfortable drafting CJ and knowing they instantly upgraded their offense.

[mr.fusion]

Wow, can you really be this dumb?
Look at the value chart. To get to number 2, we have to give up our 4th pick, our 35, our 64, and a 5th rounder to come close. For Detroit to make the trade you are talking about, that means Detroit would be equalling Rice to the 35 pick, and the 141st pick in the draft.

Do you get it now? I don't how much easier I can make it for you.


Right, because even though by only moving two spots detroit would get either Thomas or Quinn, that would not interest them.......they are going to play hardball with us and lose out on adding another 2nd and a pass rushing DE that wants to play in detroit....

Oh I know, how about detroit take CJ and then trade him for a bunch of players???? That happens all the time, and teams love trading players they already have under contract and taking HUGE cap hits.................

Go back to the kids room, turn on ur Sega Genesis version of Madden, MAKE SURE to turn off "cap penalties" and come up with a few new scenarios, babycakes..........

[Psykes]

Reality is priceless. If Rice is traded, it won;t be for more than a 4th rounder. i'm sorry that your heartthrob is only worth a 4th in trade value, but, that's what happens with over the hill one deminsional pass rushers that are coming off a season ending injury.
Thing is, pass rushers are highly coveted now a days. We traded McFarland to Indy for a 2nd rounder just so he could draw double-teams.

A third + conditional round pick is far more likely for Rice.

[no1bucsfan29]

Thing is, pass rushers are highly coveted now a days. We traded McFarland to Indy for a 2nd rounder just so he could draw double-teams.

A third + conditional round pick is far more likely for Rice.
Booger is what, 28? Rice is 32. Booger's job in Indy is just as you said, act like a lazy fat *** and take up two blockers. Something he can actually do. Rice would still have to be Rice. At his age, coming off a season ending shoulder injury, and having the rep of being a selfish player, what makes you think any team, much less Detroit, would be willing to give up a 3rd round pick for him? Even if they gave Rice 3rd round pick credit, that is still far from the 34th pick we would have to give up in a straight pick trade.
Which is what this discussion is all about. The person thinks our 1st, our low second, and Rice will equal Detroits #2 overall, even at a 3rd round value for Rice, we still wind up far short of that mark.

[BucJordan]

Again, what is to stop Detroit from grabbing Johnson, then trading to whatever team gives up the most? Then teams like the patriots, denver, greenbay, etc etc, who may not have the picks needed to get up there, would be back in the running for the kid, because they could throw in a variety of things in a mix of players and picks in next years draft.


Umm...and why is it again that teams like the the Patriots, Broncos, Packers, can't throw in a variety of things and future picks NOW? Pretty silly to say they're "back in the running" when they've actually lost this years draft as ammo, and gained none.

[Psykes]

Booger is what, 28? Rice is 32. Booger's job in Indy is just as you said, act like a lazy fat *** and take up two blockers. Something he can actually do. Rice would still have to be Rice.
That's weird, you're saying Rice would have to be himself, indicating that it'd be hard, but then saying he's not that good.

At his age, coming off a season ending shoulder injury, and having the rep of being a selfish player, what makes you think any team, much less Detroit, would be willing to give up a 3rd round pick for him?
1. I never specified Detroit. However, he DOES know exactly how Rod works, and would be working in a very similar scheme, and would also work as a mentor.
2. Where did you get that he was a "selfish player" from. Link?

Even if they gave Rice 3rd round pick credit, that is still far from the 34th pick we would have to give up in a straight pick trade.
Maybe you should read my post/s thoroughly once so we don't have to go through this again: I wasn't talking about trading up with Detroit. I was talking about Rice's trade value ANYWHERE!

But its nice to see that you pay attention to what people say before you try to reply to it.

Which is what this discussion is all about. The person thinks our 1st, our low second, and Rice will equal Detroits #2 overall, even at a 3rd round value for Rice, we still wind up far short of that mark.
No, no its not. I simply said that Rice is worth probably a 3rd and a conditional pick. Whatever that person thinks is that person's thought, not mine.

[no1bucsfan29]

That's weird, you're saying Rice would have to be himself, indicating that it'd be hard, but then saying he's not that good.

1. I never specified Detroit. However, he DOES know exactly how Rod works, and would be working in a very similar scheme, and would also work as a mentor.
2. Where did you get that he was a "selfish player" from. Link?

Maybe you should read my post/s thoroughly once so we don't have to go through this again: I wasn't talking about trading up with Detroit. I was talking about Rice's trade value ANYWHERE!

But its nice to see that you pay attention to what people say before you try to reply to it.

No, no its not. I simply said that Rice is worth probably a 3rd and a conditional pick. Whatever that person thinks is that person's thought, not mine.
SO, in all that typing, all you actually said was that you just jumped in on an already existing convo, for no reason.

[no1bucsfan29]

Umm...and why is it again that teams like the the Patriots, Broncos, Packers, can't throw in a variety of things and future picks NOW? Pretty silly to say they're "back in the running" when they've actually lost this years draft as ammo, and gained none.
You are missing the point, not that it really suprises me.

Detroit can do whatever they want to do with that 2nd pick. They will have every player in the draft, minus 1, to choose from. If any other team wants that option, they will have to pay for it, and it won't come cheap. If we don't give them what they want, they can just stay there and pick whoever they choose. having that power, means they hold the cards, it's up to the bucs to come up with an offer that is worth them giving up that spot. it's not like Detroit is calling us and begging us to take it.

[Psykes]

SO, in all that typing, all you actually said was that you just jumped in on an already existing convo, for no reason.
YET AGAIN you prove that you are ignorant and don't read posts. There, was a reason, and that reason is because I am saying that Rice is worth more than a 4th round pick! I have to put things in bold for you, because you aren't capable of reading an entire paragraph!

Its not like you were pm-ing each other. Its a message board for goodness sakes. If you say something that people don't agree to, what do you expect them to do wise guy?

[mr.fusion]

YET AGAIN you prove that you are ignorant and don't read posts. There, was a reason, and that reason is because I am saying that Rice is worth more than a 4th round pick! I have to put things in bold for you, because you aren't capable of reading an entire paragraph!

Its not like you were pm-ing each other. Its a message board for goodness sakes. If you say something that people don't agree to, what do you expect them to do wise guy?

were talking to a true genius here psykes...........

i wonder if he put in no1bucsfan 1-28 until he found the first one that wasnt taken.................................

[cadillac willy]

Booger is what, 28? Rice is 32. Booger's job in Indy is just as you said, act like a lazy fat *** and take up two blockers. Something he can actually do. Rice would still have to be Rice. At his age, coming off a season ending shoulder injury, and having the rep of being a selfish player, what makes you think any team, much less Detroit, would be willing to give up a 3rd round pick for him? Even if they gave Rice 3rd round pick credit, that is still far from the 34th pick we would have to give up in a straight pick trade.
Which is what this discussion is all about. The person thinks our 1st, our low second, and Rice will equal Detroits #2 overall, even at a 3rd round value for Rice, we still wind up far short of that mark.

IMO, i don't care how old Rice is. He is still one of the premiere pass rushers in this league (barring injury.) I think he's AT LEAST worth a 2nd round pick.

The chances of a 2nd rounder stepping in and being as good as Rice are slim to none.

Looks like a good deal to me. Besides, Marinelli loves Rice, and I'm sure he would have a strong effect on the deal being accepted or declined.

[BucJordan]

You are missing the point, not that it really suprises me.

Detroit can do whatever they want to do with that 2nd pick. They will have every player in the draft, minus 1, to choose from. If any other team wants that option, they will have to pay for it, and it won't come cheap. If we don't give them what they want, they can just stay there and pick whoever they choose. having that power, means they hold the cards, it's up to the bucs to come up with an offer that is worth them giving up that spot. it's not like Detroit is calling us and begging us to take it.


You are missing the point, not that it really surprises me.

It's pretty simple. Player + pick > Just Player. If the player they want ISN'T CJ (or AP/JT, because Cleveland's a threat there), they don't risk anything by trading down and they gain a pick. They may ask for more but if it comes down to picking, say, Gaines Adams, or Amobi Okoye, or Jamaal Anderson, at pick #2 or saving cap space and gaining a late 2nd rounderwhile taking the SAME player at #4 they'll pull the trigger.

It works both ways and your pessimism is clouding your view. I'm not saying we hold all the cards, but we aren't defenseless either. I'm not saying the trade will happen, I'm not even saying Detroit DOESN'T want CJ (They very well might) but i AM saying that if what's rumored is true and Detroit has taken a liking to a top defensive prospect, we may be the only team to trade with that will guarantee them that player while they still gain a pick. Most GM's won't be stubborn enough to say "No, we want more or nothing, so we'll just take the saame player at #2 and pay him way too much, keep your 2nd" while CJ drops to us anyway.

In other words, I'm saying that under the right conditions we could easily trade up to #2 for our 2b pick and Simeon, or something comparable and less than the value chart suggests. I don't think Allen is going to trade our entire draft away, so it all depends on what Detroit wants. If they want CJ this has all been for nothing anyway :)

[no1bucsfan29]

Actually it depends on what Oakland wants.

[no1bucsfan29]

IMO, i don't care how old Rice is. He is still one of the premiere pass rushers in this league (barring injury.) I think he's AT LEAST worth a 2nd round pick.

The chances of a 2nd rounder stepping in and being as good as Rice are slim to none.

Looks like a good deal to me. Besides, Marinelli loves Rice, and I'm sure he would have a strong effect on the deal being accepted or declined.
Again, no one is going to give a 2nd round pick for a 32 year old DE coming off a season ending injury. Especially one that the details were never released on, no one really knows just how severe that injury was, for all we know, he could still be hurting. Stop being such a homer and open your eyes for once.

[no1bucsfan29]

YET AGAIN you prove that you are ignorant and don't read posts. There, was a reason, and that reason is because I am saying that Rice is worth more than a 4th round pick! I have to put things in bold for you, because you aren't capable of reading an entire paragraph!

Its not like you were pm-ing each other. Its a message board for goodness sakes. If you say something that people don't agree to, what do you expect them to do wise guy?
See the above post.
As I said, even if detroit gave us the value of a 3rd round pick for Rice, it still wouldn't be enough to make the trade, and again, that is what this discussion is about.

[BucJordan]

Actually it depends on what Oakland wants.


Can't argue that, if Oakland wants CJ the whole thing is moot also, just saying it's possible we dont pay out the *** to move up, if we move up.

[cadillac willy]

Again, no one is going to give a 2nd round pick for a 32 year old DE coming off a season ending injury. Especially one that the details were never released on, no one really knows just how severe that injury was, for all we know, he could still be hurting. Stop being such a homer and open your eyes for once.

So you don't think Simeon's old coach would give up a 2nd for him?

I think it is you who needs to open your eyes bucfan.

[BroncoFan]

Oaklands gonna take Calvin Johnson

They signed a couple of solid OL, one in Carlisle from my Broncos and the center from the niners

I think Oaklands biggest signing was their new coach. Apparently Porter and the whole team is fired up about the new system. It'll be a WCO which will get the ball out quicker, the signed a solid vetern SB RB that can catch outta the backfield in Domonic Rhoades

Thay also signed a very good blocking FB in Griffith

You're gonna see Moss, Calvin Jonson and Jerry Porter lining up in 3 WR sets this year

And with that upgraded OL and depth they now have at RB and the new system, Andrew Walter will do well, not great but he'll be servicble.

I think some people are gonna be shocked by Oakland

They are my sleepr team this year

Not to mention they got a solid, solid defense

And what if Oakland takes QB Drew Stanton or Trent Edwards in rd 2?

The idea of Moss-Calvin-Porter trio WR scares the hell outta me as a Bronco fan

[bucfan0192]

Why would Detroit want Simeon? They are in no position to be competitive for at least another two years. To trade a second round pick for a 33 year old, one dimensional pass rusher is extremely ill advised. I could understand the trade if they were on the brink of success, but they aren't, and that is why they have the second overall pick.

[mr.fusion]

To trade a second round pick for a 33 year old, one dimensional pass rusher is extremely ill advised. I could understand the trade if they were on the brink of success, but they aren't, and that is why they have the second overall pick.

The only people saying that this deal entails Detroit trading a 2nd round pick for Simeon are the ones saying it makes no sense

NOONE has said that part of this deal is detroit giving us a 2nd rounder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[bucfan0192]

The only people saying that this deal entails Detroit trading a 2nd round pick for Simeon are the ones saying it makes no sense

NOONE has said that part of this deal is detroit giving us a 2nd rounder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

Is that so?

So you don't think Simeon's old coach would give up a 2nd for him?

I think it is you who needs to open your eyes bucfan.

[truckurjoe]

I wonder if they just had Boston and Clayton there to knock Simm's passes down and see if CJ got frustrated since that's how it would be in a real game.


no clayton was there just to drop passes (like usual) to make cj look that much better

[truckurjoe]

Oaklands gonna take Calvin Johnson

They signed a couple of solid OL, one in Carlisle from my Broncos and the center from the niners

I think Oaklands biggest signing was their new coach. Apparently Porter and the whole team is fired up about the new system. It'll be a WCO which will get the ball out quicker, the signed a solid vetern SB RB that can catch outta the backfield in Domonic Rhoades

Thay also signed a very good blocking FB in Griffith

You're gonna see Moss, Calvin Jonson and Jerry Porter lining up in 3 WR sets this year

And with that upgraded OL and depth they now have at RB and the new system, Andrew Walter will do well, not great but he'll be servicble.

I think some people are gonna be shocked by Oakland

They are my sleepr team this year

Not to mention they got a solid, solid defense

And what if Oakland takes QB Drew Stanton or Trent Edwards in rd 2?

The idea of Moss-Calvin-Porter trio WR scares the hell outta me as a Bronco fan

i disagree, oakland will not be in playoff contension this season. and if they want to get better they are going to need a star qb. they already have a couple of good recievers in moss and porter. so they should look to the future. and draft a excellent qb that will be able to be around for a while. because walter, well he just sucks. and correct me if im wrong but i dont think otis or booty have even taken any snaps in the nfl. so it would be a wise decision to draft russel

[bucfan0192]

Personally, I think Oakland should draft Quinn. He's a much surer prospect (if such a thing exists) than Jamarcus.

[K Preem.]

Who's to say that Detroit might not consider trading for Plummer? They certainly don't have a better player on the roster the Jake. I think they would put a premium on him and make a viable player-pick trade.

[BearLandBucFan]

All I know is Oakland keeps putting themselves in the position to draft their future QB and don't...

will they equally play the dumb card and skip out on QB again like they have done recently?

or will they finally learn and accept that their veteran choices lately aren't the answer

it is quite possible that whoever Oakland does NOT pick ends up being the person we DO pick

[no1bucsfan29]

Who's to say that Detroit might not consider trading for Plummer? They certainly don't have a better player on the roster the Jake. I think they would put a premium on him and make a viable player-pick trade.
Why trade for a guy that doesn't want to play anymore?

[PiratePhil]

If Oakland passes on drafting a QB they will be in the same position next year.

Detroit needs a QB, Kitna was fine last year but how can they pass on Quinn or Russell, depending on who is available.

I don't think we trade up, if we do, until Oakland makes their pick.

Rice won't be traded.

As much as we all want CJ I think, for some reason or another, he won't be available at pick #4.

Does the fact that Boston went on that trip mean he's here to stay this time? Can anything be made of Simms going rather than Garcia?

[bucfan0192]

Does the fact that Boston went on that trip mean he's here to stay this time? Can anything be made of Simms going rather than Garcia?

I don't think that Boston going really makes a difference. You can't tell if someone is going to stay for good "this time" if you haven't seen them in a game situation yet.

Simms throws a better deep ball than Garcia, and Jeff needs to stay in Tampa and focus on learning the offense, not throwing to a potential draft pick.

[BroncoFan]

All I know is Oakland keeps putting themselves in the position to draft their future QB and don't...

will they equally play the dumb card and skip out on QB again like they have done recently? I hated the Cutler pick

or will they finally learn and accept that their veteran choices lately aren't the answer

it is quite possible that whoever Oakland does NOT pick ends up being the person we DO pick

I dont put alot of stock in top rd QB's myself

How many of those QB's that the Raiders passed on go to the playoffs?

The Raiders went to the SB 4 years ago by picking up a 37 vetern QB named Rich Gannon.

QB's are just to much of a risk that early for my liking. Leinart didnt do squat and he had two of the best WR's out there. Even Cutler got sacked like 10 times in 4 games, that shows you he has'nt adjusted to the speed of the game, Plummer was behind the same line and played more games and was only sacked like 4 times.

Calvin Johnson is the safest pick bar none, Randy Moss might play one more year but more than likely will be gone bu the 2008 season and Jerry Porter I believe is a FA next year too.

Al Davis probably aint looking for what CJ will do this year, what he's probably looking at is the 2008 season and by taking the best WR to come out in 10 years, its one position he'll have locked up with guys like Curry & Gabriel

[mr.fusion]

check it no1bucsfan29 (http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=139484)

getting close to being a done deal.......

[BuccoBruceski]

I wonder if they just had Boston and Clayton there to knock Simm's passes down and see if CJ got frustrated since that's how it would be in a real game.

no1bucsfan29=notabucsfan29 :mad:

[no1bucsfan29]

no1bucsfan29=notabucsfan29 :mad:
Hi moron. How have you been?

[no1bucsfan29]

check it no1bucsfan29 (http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=139484)

getting close to being a done deal.......
Did you see the source? They probably got their entire story from this board and this thread.