Should the Bucs make a move for Quinn?

[BuccaneerBonzai]

http://seeknation.com/sports/?p=13
SeekNation Network: Sports News & Views

Should the Bucs make a move to get Johnson, or go another position?
By Pete Dutcher

Come draft day, we can expect a lot of excitement. Everyone seems to think the Bucs will pick WR Johnson with their pick, but what happens if they don’t?

I don’t know…it just seems to me that if a team has such a high pick, and the quarterback position is uncertain, a move should be made to get a QB in the draft. I know many will disagree, but there are PLENTY of WRs in the draft this year, and we can easily shore up that position with one of the following 3 picks we have. But what we really need are:

Quarterback
Oline
Safety & Other Defense

In that order. Add to that the fact that Gruden NEVER does the expected with his first pick. I don’t see him trading up with the Raiders, but I do see him trading for hte second pick as a possibility. This would assure him of one of the top two QBs. If we see a move for the #1 pick, and make no mistake, Al Davis would suck the life from us because of it, we can be sure its not for a WR.

Personally, I’d like to see us take Brady Quinn. he’d be the perfect fit here. The Bucs could cut Gradkowski, Sign Quinn and make him #2, with Simms as #3. Garcia can start this year and help groom Quinn. Meanwhile, we use the other picks to help fill our other weaknesses, and NEXT year, start Quinn, and fill in hte last of the weakspots in the team. Then the Bucs would be unstoppable.


Don't know if I agree, but he is right about one thing...Gruden does tend to be unpredictable in the draft.

[navybuc81]

Only make a move for Quinn if you can get trade value for Simms. Because you cannot keep Garcia, Quinn and Simms on the same roster. Just can't do it. I think Quinn is going to be a solid qb and had the best qb coach in the world coaching him at Notre Dame. But if you bring him here, you can't keep Simms.

[thedestroyer]

We would be idiots to cut Gradkowski.

[dawgland]

We would be idiots to cut Gradkowski.
why?

you've already got good back-ups in garcia and simms

[thedestroyer]

why?

you've already got good back-ups in garcia and simms

Garcia's nearing the end of his career, and if Simms can't cut it as the starter, I don't see the Bucs keeping him around. Grads was a good, and CHEAP late round pick-up who can at least be a solid backup. I think Gradkowski will benefit greatly from being around Garcia, who he is very similar to (smallish, medium arm-strength, scrambler, tough). You're not going to find a guy better than Gradkowski at a cheaper price. If you put #4 pick money into a quarterback, then you're saying that Simms will never be the starter. Simms would be the guy to get rid of.

[Miller4Prez64]

If we draft Quinn I will be one angry man.....unless we send Simms away. But I still would be mad if we passed up on Johnson for Quinn.

[K Preem.]

Garcia's nearing the end of his career, and if Simms can't cut it as the starter, I don't see the Bucs keeping him around. Grads was a good, and CHEAP late round pick-up who can at least be a solid backup. I think Gradkowski will benefit greatly from being around Garcia, who he is very similar to (smallish, medium arm-strength, scrambler, tough). You're not going to find a guy better than Gradkowski at a cheaper price. If you put #4 pick money into a quarterback, then you're saying that Simms will never be the starter. Simms would be the guy to get rid of.
I certainly agree. Atleast we know Gradkowski has a knack for not turning the ball over. Isn't that something you want out of a backup?

[Chebington]

That Pete Dutcher doesn't know what he's talking about. He says we need a QB, Oline, and a saftey in that order.

We have Simms, Garcia, Grad, and others. Drafting another QB just adds another body to the equation, probably as a third-stringer; what a waste of a top 5 pick.

On the O-line, I agree that JT is a good player. But here's what our starting group looks like opening day:

LT - Petitgout
LG - Davis
C - Wade/Buenning (hopefully buenning)
RG - Joseph
RT - Trueblood

Tell me, where is room for a top-5 pick there? Thomas doesn't have the strength or mentality to play inside. He's a finesse player best built for pass blocking. We brought in Petitgout to start, he's experienced, and when healthy he's a top 10 LT. By benching Trueblood, we basically throw away a second round pick and sabotage a young player's confidence who has room to grow.

Saftey? While saftey play was admittedly poor, THE KEY TO OUR DEFENSE IS PRESSURE FROM THE FRONT FOUR. Mr Dutcher should write that down. The best safteys in the world, in our system, couldn't cover anyone when the QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball. A new saftey would be nice, but without pressure, it's useless. We finished 31st in the league in sacks: second to last. We need pressure, we need sacks. Neither of those come from a saftey.

Mr Dutcher is a fool.

[thedestroyer]

That Pete Dutcher doesn't know what he's talking about. He says we need a QB, Oline, and a saftey in that order.

We have Simms, Garcia, Grad, and others. Drafting another QB just adds another body to the equation, probably as a third-stringer; what a waste of a top 5 pick.

On the O-line, I agree that JT is a good player. But here's what our starting group looks like opening day:

LT - Petitgout
LG - Davis
C - Wade/Buenning (hopefully buenning)
RG - Joseph
RT - Trueblood

Tell me, where is room for a top-5 pick there? Thomas doesn't have the strength or mentality to play inside. He's a finesse player best built for pass blocking. We brought in Petitgout to start, he's experienced, and when healthy he's a top 10 LT. By benching Trueblood, we basically throw away a second round pick and sabotage a young player's confidence who has room to grow.

Saftey? While saftey play was admittedly poor, THE KEY TO OUR DEFENSE IS PRESSURE FROM THE FRONT FOUR. Mr Dutcher should write that down. The best safteys in the world, in our system, couldn't cover anyone when the QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball. A new saftey would be nice, but without pressure, it's useless. We finished 31st in the league in sacks: second to last. We need pressure, we need sacks. Neither of those come from a saftey.

Mr Dutcher is a fool.

I agree 100% about our QB and O-Line situation. I would be mad if we drafted Joe Thomas. I would like to get a safety later on day one though. This draft is deep at safety. Get it while the gettin's good!

[sgolan]

Drafting a guy like Brady Quinn CANNOT be a mistake unless you're Indy, N.E., N.O., Philly, or maybe the G-men. Tampa certainly doesn't have a guy we can call the "franchise QB," so bringing in a guy who could be the man for us would be fine with me.

I will agree, however, that we have bigger, more pressing needs to address...so drafting Quinn if someone like CJ or Gaines Adams is still there would be "not so smart."

[CPT_FEAR]

QB isn't our biggest need, still i'd love seing Quinn here if Johnson is gone.
O-Line isn't a need at all, unless Center. Joe Thomas would be a really bad pick at #4 IMO.

[nsn666]

cj
quinn
okoye

in that order, althought this has already been said 100 times

[xljohn316]

Taking Quinn would be the perfect move if CJ and JT are gone. It is becoming painfully obvious that Simms is NOT our franchise QB under the Gruden system. Let him go to another team that likes to throw downfield (read NOT WCO) where he can thrive.

[BridgeRepair]

Here's, in order, what I want to happen:

1. Take CJ
2. Trade down
3. Take Peterson
4. Take Quinn to trade to Minn/Mia
5. Take Quinn

So, many things have to not-be able to happen for me to be pleased with Quinn pick.

[GenocideD]

That Pete Dutcher doesn't know what he's talking

Saftey? While saftey play was admittedly poor, THE KEY TO OUR DEFENSE IS PRESSURE FROM THE FRONT FOUR. Mr Dutcher should write that down. The best safteys in the world, in our system, couldn't cover anyone when the QB has 5 seconds to throw the ball. A new saftey would be nice, but without pressure, it's useless. We finished 31st in the league in sacks: second to last. We need pressure, we need sacks. Neither of those come from a saftey.

Mr Dutcher is a fool.
Hear Hear!

We need a big, dominant kick @$$ DT and we need him NOW!

[ugahairydawgs]

I wouldn't take Quinn with a 2nd round pick.

[Chebington]

Taking Quinn would be the perfect move if CJ and JT are gone. It is becoming painfully obvious that Simms is NOT our franchise QB under the Gruden system. Let him go to another team that likes to throw downfield (read NOT WCO) where he can thrive.

I for one couldn't stand drafting a backup QB while my team struggles in mediocrity. "Franchise" QB be damned; we have four QBs on our team that have started NFL games, two of which have started playoff contests. One of them pulled off the greatest playoff comeback of all time, the other is so flugging tough he lost his spleen rather than pull himself out of a game.

Now, gentlemen, a dose of reality. We finished second to last in scoring offense last season. 12.8 points a game. That is one touchdown and two field goals. A game. We dropped out of the top 10 defensively for the first time in a decade. We finished second to last in sacks. Our running game finished 27th in yards gained. Neither Brady Quinn nor JaMarcus Russell will overturn those disturbing realities.

I want our TEAM to get better, man. Bringing in a scrub as a third-stringer with the number 4 overall pick doesn't help at all.

[thedestroyer]

I for one couldn't stand drafting a backup QB while my team struggles in mediocrity. "Franchise" QB be damned; we have four QBs on our team that have started NFL games, two of which have started playoff contests. One of them pulled off the greatest playoff comeback of all time, the other is so flugging tough he lost his spleen rather than pull himself out of a game.

Now, gentlemen, a dose of reality. We finished second to last in scoring offense last season. 12.8 points a game. That is one touchdown and two field goals. A game. We dropped out of the top 10 defensively for the first time in a decade. We finished second to last in sacks. Our running game finished 27th in yards gained. Neither Brady Quinn nor JaMarcus Russell will overturn those disturbing realities.

I want our TEAM to get better, man. Bringing in a scrub as a third-stringer with the number 4 overall pick doesn't help at all.

Great post, and if you don't mind, I would like to start using the term "flugging".

[Brain]

I think that Gruden has two things in mind for this draft. First he's hoping CJ will fall to us at #4. ( I can't see him trading up and spending draft pics that we desperately need). If not I think that he is looking to trade down a few spots and go after Okoye. I know he called him in for a visit and he has to think that we need an impact player on our Defensive line NOW.

I wouldn't mind Quinn but I just think that Gruden doesn't have the time to groom someone that is going to sit for at least a year, maybe more.

[BuccaneerBonzai]

I for one couldn't stand drafting a backup QB while my team struggles in mediocrity. "Franchise" QB be damned; we have four QBs on our team that have started NFL games, two of which have started playoff contests. One of them pulled off the greatest playoff comeback of all time, the other is so flugging tough he lost his spleen rather than pull himself out of a game.

Now, gentlemen, a dose of reality. We finished second to last in scoring offense last season. 12.8 points a game. That is one touchdown and two field goals. A game. We dropped out of the top 10 defensively for the first time in a decade. We finished second to last in sacks. Our running game finished 27th in yards gained. Neither Brady Quinn nor JaMarcus Russell will overturn those disturbing realities.

I want our TEAM to get better, man. Bringing in a scrub as a third-stringer with the number 4 overall pick doesn't help at all.

Don't the Bucs get 4-5 picks in the first day?

I wouldn' say the writer is a total fool. We may not like it, but he might be reading Gruden like an open book. Not once has he done the predictable in the draft. In the past, EVERY prediction made concerning our first pick under Gruden has been off base.

As far as the Oline...I don't think the writer meant to take Oline with the first pick. On his homepage I think he even said it won't happen.

Here's a scenario: We take Johnson with first pick, and still end the season at 4 and 12 or 5 and 11. We'll be in the same position as last year, with a QB that has one year left in him, and two backups with losing records. And we'll be wishing we had a better option at QB position.

On the other hand, if we DID trade up and get Quinn, we'd have to give up our 4th and a couple other 1st day picks, but we could take a safety with our next pick...then a WR, since the pool is deep with them.

I REALLY agree though that Gruden will not do what everyone hopes of predicts. He never has and never will. so it doesn't matter what we want...we'll be mad or surpised come draft day either way.

[4theBucs]

You guys have to realize that Gruden is on the hot seat. He will not take a quaterback that will stand there and look pretty on the sideline the whole year while hes burning on the hot seat. Six year extension or not, he fails, hes gone. I think Allen is on the hot seat too. I also think that they like Johnson a lot, like everyone else, but the reason they are willing to give up so much is because that is what the fan base is asking for. While i really wouldnt mind getting quinn if johnson is gone, if we trade up to get him the bucs are about as dumb as the raiders. Ok that isnt possible, but still. We already have spent so much money on QBs and if you guys havent heard, Plummer is looking like he will be there for training camp. He doesnt wanna pay the Bucs 7 mil so hell show up, I cant say how useful hell be. We have too much money invested in that stop with simms garcia and plummer that we couldnt afford to spend #4 money or even crazier #2 on the position that currently is going through the toughest competition. Read the letters between the lines, its spells smokescreen.

[BuccaneerBonzai]

Here's a related update:

POSTED 11:44 a.m. EDT, April 18, 2007
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
BUCS-LIONS WORKING ON A DEAL

Our friends at WDAE in Tampa have tipped us off to a rumor that we're in the process of confirming that the Lions have traded the No. 2 overall pick in the 2007 draft to the Buccaneers for the No. 4 overall pick and defensive end Simeon Rice.

A league source tells us that, while there is not a done deal, the talks are occurring regarding a flip-flop of No. 2 and No. 4. It's not presently clear whether Rice is part of the deal.

The Bucs presumably want to get in position to take receiver Calvin Johnson with the No. 2 selection, if the Raiders don't take Johnson with the No. 1.

The real intrigue on this one arises if the Raiders take Johnson. Would the Bucs then pick quarterback JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn? Or would they take left tackle Joe Thomas?

Recently, the Bucs conducted on-campus workouts with Johnson, Russell, and Quinn. They didn't include Thomas in the tour, and we've seen some evidence in the Tampa press of possible efforts by the team to bad-mouth Thomas, possibly in the hopes that he'll be available at No. 4.

It could be that the Lions are willing to make the deal to go down to No. 4 because they think they could still get Thomas at that spot. But if Johnson is the No. 1 pick, Thomas might be long gone by the time the Lions use the pick currently held by Tampa.

We're keeping a close eye on this one. Check back for more details.


On March 24th, Pete Dutcher and crew published this:
Are the Bucs Trading up to #2?
http://seeknation.com/sports/
Pete Dutcher reports that inside sources have told him the Bucs are involved in talks with the Lions for the 2nd overall pick in the draft. At this point, that talk look promissing, but are not a lock.

If the source is correct, the Bucs wish to offer their 4th overall pick and Simeon Rice (DE) in return for the 2nd pick. The Lions are asking for the 4th, the 35th and Simeon Rice…a steep price indeed.


And a new article just went up:
More on the Lions trade…
We reported the deal being worked on March 24, ironically 24 days ago. Now 620 WDAE and Profootballtalk.com (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm) are each reporting a trade with the Lions is in the working.

Of key note in the PFT article is:
“The real intrigue on this one arises if the Raiders take Johnson. Would the Bucs then pick quarterback JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn? Or would they take left tackle Joe Thomas?”

It looks like we were right again. When we predicted the Bucs would go after Brady Quinn, we were met with scepticism…now it looks like we were right. The Raiders need a wide receiver to replace Moss. There is a more than likely chance they WILL take Johnson…especially since its widely thought Gruden wants Johnson. Al Davis just loves sticking it to the Bucs, who he even accuses of stealing his logo years ago.

Mark our words, the Bucs WILL NOT take Joe Thomas with their first pick. Their off season moves so far have made it clear they will not. They hade fixed the Oline issues through free agency, and while we see them taking Oline with a later pick (just to prepare the way for later years), we think the Bucs will use the 35th pick on a WR or Safety…most likely a safety.

So, to all you naysayers out there….we stick out our tongues and say, “Told you so!”


Point 1: I think Pete Dutcher is reading the Bucs message boards.
Point 2: It IS starting to look like he is right...or beginning to lean in that direction anyway.
Point 3: Maybe he's not the fool some people make him out to be.

[BuccaneerBonzai]

I've made up my mind...I think we're going QB with the 2nd overall pick. People may not like it, but I see it coming.

[Corsair]

I've made up my mind...I think we're going QB with the 2nd overall pick. People may not like it, but I see it coming.
We don't have the #2 overall pick... yet.

Even if we do, we are not gunning for Quinn, IMO.

[Chebington]

I've made up my mind...I think we're going QB with the 2nd overall pick. People may not like it, but I see it coming.

I pray not. What a stupid move.

[Head173]

Mr Dutcher is a fool.

Agreed! :anigrin:
We already have too many QBs, we spent 2 first day picks on the line last year, and they are both starting. Our safety coverage can be helped by gettin a better pass rush(IMO more blitzing and less zone). It's either CJ or Peterson for us.