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Fooball
02-22-2009, 07:39 AM
I know there have been numerous threads on Freeman, but this article involves Coach Morris and his views. Thought it should stand on it's own and not be missed by those interested.

The third ranked QB in the draft, Josh Freeman works out today at the combine. Morris and Dominik will be watching closely. :grinyes:

From the St. Pete Times:

Former Kansas State QB Josh Freeman has a lot riding on combine

By Rick Stroud, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Sunday, February 22, 2009

INDIANAPOLIS — Josh Freeman walked into the interview room at Lucas Oil Stadium as Raheem Morris was headed out and they stopped to shake hands before falling into each other's arms like relatives reuniting at an airport.

Freeman, a 6-foot-6, 248-pound quarterback from Kansas State, spent one season with Morris when he was Wildcats defensive coordinator.

In a draft that isn't deep with elite quarterbacks, Freeman is the third-rated player at his position behind Georgia's Matt Stafford and USC's Mark Sanchez.

Freeman came to the NFL scouting combine with much to prove. Because he is a junior, he wasn't eligible to play in postseason all-star games, and he didn't get an extra chance to perform in a bowl game after the Wildcats' 5-7 season.

But Morris already knows about Freeman's rocket right arm, his escape ability and his leadership qualities.

The Bucs also own the No. 19 overall pick and a long history of not drafting quarterbacks in early rounds. The highest draft choice the Bucs have used on a quarterback was a third-round selection for Chris Simms in 2003. http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m406/fooball_photo/laughing1.gif

"Obviously, you look at him and he's a specimen to look at," Morris said of Freeman. "He can throw the ball. He just didn't win enough games at Kansas State.

"This is a big process for him. He's trying to get into the mix. Obviously he'll be a guy that somebody takes and somebody will be pretty happy with depending on the end of the day. But he's a special talent now. I remember him coming out of high school, he looked exactly the same. He might have grown an inch because he's got his little afro coming back. He's a smart, sharp, young detailed guy from a good family, and he's a talented player."

The Bucs appear pretty committed to Luke McCown after he signed a two-year, $7.5 million contract and was told he would compete for the starting job. Veteran Brian Griese and second-year pro Josh Johnson are the only other quarterbacks under contract, and Tampa Bay intends to bring four to training camp.

Most likely, it'll be another veteran to push McCown and potentially replace Griese as the No. 2. But the pool of available free-agent passers isn't going to quicken many pulses.

Jeff Garcia, who was told to move on by the Bucs, might be the best of the bunch. The Patriots placed the franchise tag on Matt Cassel but might make him available for a trade.

"Environment is important," Morris said. "What you do with a guy is important. You better do what Matt Cassel can do if you decide to take him, if you decide to trade for him. Those are the important things, those are the important issues."

After that, teams are looking at signing one-time starters like J.P. Losman, Kyle Boller and Rex Grossman.

So why not invest a late first-round pick on a quarterback like Freeman? Who does he compare to in the NFL?

"I'd say, first and foremost, (Pittsburgh's) Ben Roethlisberger for the size and ability to move around the pocket and extend the play," Freeman said. "And also (Philadelphia's) Donovan McNabb, just the way he harnesses his athletic ability and is still able to sit in the pocket and be a pocket passer."

Incidentally, those two quarterbacks have played in three of the past five Super Bowls.

Freeman set school marks for most completions (680), attempts (1,151), yards (8,078) and total offense (8,421 yards). His interceptions declined each season from 15 to 11 to eight; he had 382 attempts last season.

Freeman's workout today will go a long way toward determining his draft status.

"He'll show the big arm. He'll show accurate throws. He'll show the touch. He'll show the movement, all the steps," Morris said. "He'll do everything a quarterback needs to do and be pretty successful. He may be the sleeper, you never know."

Morris knows a lot about Freeman. The only question is whether that translates into the coach and quarterback reuniting in Tampa Bay.

"I don't know if it gives you an edge," Morris said of his inside knowledge. "Sometimes the more you know about a person, it hurts you a little bit. So it may hurt me. But knowing his character and his personality — the traits you would eliminate a guy for — I know all those things. So that's where it helps you. If the kid is talented, we're all going to know (today)."Link (http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/article978122.ece)

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m406/fooball_photo/football/c4s_freeman022209_57545c.jpg
Josh Freeman left Kansas State as the all-time leading passer in several categories, including completions (680), attempts (1,151), yards (8,078) and total offense (8,421 yards). “Obviously he’ll be a guy that somebody takes and somebody will be pretty happy with depending on the end of the day. But he’s a special talent now,” Bucs coach Raheem Morris says.

Bucko40
02-22-2009, 08:10 AM
Only Rick Stroud can forget the Bucs selecting Trent Dilfer in the 1st round. Does this guy even proof read his work for continuity before it goes to print.

That being said I'm not a huge fan of Freeman. I don't think he's consistant enough to be a elite NFL QB.

GS500F
02-22-2009, 09:28 AM
I guess he forgot Doug Williams and Vinny Testaverde too.

Fooball
02-22-2009, 09:58 AM
Lol.....had to go back and edit after you two guys posted. Too funny.

Legacy
02-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Rick Stroud is a moron and my opinion of Freeman hasn't changed: I'll be ****ed if we draft him.

Cold Buc Fan
02-22-2009, 11:17 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/07/30/sports/30elite583.jpgThis should put in perspective, Look how Freeman dwarfs Tebow and Stafford. Imagine a cornerback trying to tackle him on a blitz?!?! It won't happen.

GotQB?
02-22-2009, 11:25 AM
Yea he's a big dude.

I still think he's a solid prospect, what cannot be coached he already has it. His faults can be so I mean I'm not trying saying "OMG GET HIM DRAFT HIM NOW DOOO IITT!" But I'll be curious to see were he does land on draft day.

maryjanewatson
02-22-2009, 11:33 AM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/07/30/sports/30elite583.jpgThis should put in perspective, Look how Freeman dwarfs Tebow and Stafford. Imagine a cornerback trying to tackle him on a blitz?!?! It won't happen.

Yeah, but he's dwarfed by Dan McGwire...so we should probably move him ahead of Freeman on our big board.

Ohh...But Andrew Walter is like 6'7...

Does anyone know what Gheorge Mursean is doing these days?

Miller4Prez64
02-22-2009, 11:45 AM
I actually like Freeman, he's big and has a nice arm. I like him more than Sanchez honestly.

Legacy
02-22-2009, 11:52 AM
I actually like Freeman, he's big and has a nice arm. I like him more than Sanchez honestly.
Freeman's 49% completion percentage against non-cupcake schools doesn't concern you? As has been pointed out before, he's a 1st rounder when judged physically, but a 7th rounder when it comes to football intelligence. I don't want him anywhere near our roster.

If we're going to develop a QB, we've already got Josh Johnson.

Jakopo
02-22-2009, 11:52 AM
If I were the Bucs, I would draft Freeman if he was still there.



(in the 3rd round)

slobberknocker
02-22-2009, 12:11 PM
if size mattered lorenzen from kentucky a few years back, at 6 6 290 would of been a hit. vince young as all the intelligables except intellegence, rocket arm that cant hit the side of a barn. if we draft this guy in the first ill be pee-ost!

maryjanewatson
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
if size mattered lorenzen from kentucky a few years back, at 6 6 290 would of been a hit. vince young as all the intelligables except intellegence, rocket arm that cant hit the side of a barn. if we draft this guy in the first ill be pee-ost!

Did you even look at the picture?

Chebington
02-22-2009, 12:54 PM
Size and strength doesn't matter if you can't play. For the umpteenth time, the Bucs shouldn't draft Josh Freeman.

2.0
02-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Sign Yao Ming?

PoppaPewter
02-23-2009, 09:04 AM
Freeman's 49% completion percentage against non-cupcake schools doesn't concern you? As has been pointed out before, he's a 1st rounder when judged physically, but a 7th rounder when it comes to football intelligence. I don't want him anywhere near our roster.

If we're going to develop a QB, we draft Pat White in the 3rd.

Felt the same way you did, but had to edit one part, I'm not a fan of J.J.

Duality51
02-23-2009, 09:42 AM
if size mattered lorenzen from kentucky a few years back, at 6 6 290 would of been a hit. vince young as all the intelligables except intellegence, rocket arm that cant hit the side of a barn. if we draft this guy in the first ill be pee-ost!

I played football against him he is not 6'6, but the 290 is dead on maybe more the guy runs like a truck though.

Duality51
02-23-2009, 09:43 AM
Felt the same way you did, but had to edit one part, I'm not a fan of J.J.

Thats who I want Pat wWhite tampa won't get him though doubt it.

GotQB?
02-23-2009, 09:52 AM
Thats who I want Pat wWhite tampa won't get him though doubt it.

We COULD get him if the front office and coaches wanted to go after him. Even after his great workout at the combine he maybe improved his stock to earliest 3rd rounder. Late second if he can continue or impress even more at his pro day.

Duality51
02-23-2009, 09:57 AM
We COULD get him if the front office and coaches wanted to go after him. Even after his great workout at the combine he maybe improved his stock to earliest 3rd rounder. Late second if he can continue or impress even more at his pro day.

I really don't see what is wrong with him except only that he is short for qb, but the guy has been showing he can throw and I don't remember him having a beast wr or a good one.

GotQB?
02-23-2009, 10:02 AM
I really don't see what is wrong with him except only that he is short for qb, but the guy has been showing he can throw and I don't remember him having a beast wr or a good one.

Yea his size and frame is the only thing RIGHT NOW thats holding him back cause yea he was very shocking and impressive at the combine. Althought Drew Brees, Steve Young were just above 6 foot too and look at what they have done/did. Not comparing Pat White to them by any means just the height thing.

Duality51
02-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Yea his size and frame is the only thing RIGHT NOW thats holding him back cause yea he was very shocking and impressive at the combine. Althought Drew Brees, Steve Young were just above 6 foot too and look at what they have done/did. Not comparing Pat White to them by any means just the height thing.

Hope we get him. I didn't know steve young was that short though.

GotQB?
02-23-2009, 10:30 AM
Hope we get him. I didn't know steve young was that short though.

TBH with you I didn't know that about Steve Young either, heard it from coach Mooch last night. But yea another thing he's showing is his work ethic, I mean this kid WANTS to play QB in the NFL and he's proving his case so far really well and in a some what of a shocking way too.

X Factor
02-23-2009, 11:26 AM
Yeah, but he's dwarfed by Dan McGwire...so we should probably move him ahead of Freeman on our big board.

Ohh...But Andrew Walter is like 6'7...

Does anyone know what Gheorge Mursean is doing these days?
Nice, it's not everyday that you hear a Gheorge Mursean reference dropped!

Cold Buc Fan
02-23-2009, 07:06 PM
Yeah, but he's dwarfed by Dan McGwire...so we should probably move him ahead of Freeman on our big board.

Ohh...But Andrew Walter is like 6'7...

Does anyone know what Gheorge Mursean is doing these days?You observations myopic and cynical as usual.

Cold Buc Fan
02-23-2009, 07:08 PM
Size and strength doesn't matter if you can't play. For the umpteenth time, the Bucs shouldn't draft Josh Freeman.because you've coached him? Played against him? Or seen him and based on you NFL experience he's not the guy? :confused: :rolleyes:

Cold Buc Fan
02-23-2009, 07:09 PM
Nice, it's not everyday that you hear a Gheorge Mursean reference dropped!That's because when you are grasping at straws, you have to dig deep into the archives. Way to encourage her.

Handiman1031
02-23-2009, 07:13 PM
Gruden said Freeman was very impressive in all his interviews and really speaks the west coast language. A lot of people were worried about his football IQ, maybe he answered some questions.

Duality51
02-23-2009, 08:34 PM
We must remember if this was grudens Offense then yea Freeman would be horrible, but this is Jags offense and said it is easy to learn so I see Freeman being a good choice plus we can let him learn this year and have McCown play this Brutal year.

BuccaneerBonzai
02-24-2009, 12:01 AM
Freeman's 49% completion percentage against non-cupcake schools doesn't concern you? As has been pointed out before, he's a 1st rounder when judged physically, but a 7th rounder when it comes to football intelligence. I don't want him anywhere near our roster.

If we're going to develop a QB, we've already got Josh Johnson.

mmMMMmmm...cupcakes....starting to hate this diet...

I don't want Freeman either...but if they take him I'll be rooting for him...cause once it's done...it's done.

Thaqt said, the Bucs won't be taking a QB in the draft this year.

Chebington
02-24-2009, 02:07 AM
because you've coached him? Played against him? Or seen him and based on you NFL experience he's not the guy? :confused: :rolleyes:

I've been coaching for awhile, though admittedly I'm a Defensive Coordinator and don't coach QBs. Still, I've scouted many a QB in my day. I played football from ages 10 to 21 and got some collegiate experience. Here's my take on him:

In a conference notorious for poor pass defense, he is average. His completion percentage in that same conference is deplorable. His yards per attempt and yards per completion are both very pedestrian. Was 14-18 as a collegiate starter, and was an every-play threat in maybe one game a year.

His best passing year by yardage, attempts and completions is when he was a junior. At the time, he had Jordy Nelson, a consensus All-American WR. Despite that, he was again lackluster.

He makes stupid decisions with the football. His accuracy is questionable. His field vision is terrible.

But he has UPSIDE! He can run 40 yards in a straight line in shorts on a track with no one chasing him! He can strut around and throw two deep balls per drill. Obviously a first round talent.

After all, what greater measure of prowess in football is there besides throwing to a wideout with zero DBs in a ten mile radius?

Draft him in the first, I say. It's the only logical thing to do.

ArmchairBuc
02-24-2009, 02:17 AM
I've been coaching for awhile, though admittedly I'm a Defensive Coordinator and don't coach QBs. Still, I've scouted many a QB in my day. I played football from ages 10 to 21 and got some collegiate experience. Here's my take on him:

In a conference notorious for poor pass defense, he is average. His completion percentage in that same conference is deplorable. His yards per attempt and yards per completion are both very pedestrian. Was 14-18 as a collegiate starter, and was an every-play threat in maybe one game a year.

His best passing year by yardage, attempts and completions is when he was a junior. At the time, he had Jordy Nelson, a consensus All-American WR. Despite that, he was again lackluster.

He makes stupid decisions with the football. His accuracy is questionable. His field vision is terrible.

But he has UPSIDE! He can run 40 yards in a straight line in shorts on a track with no one chasing him! He can strut around and throw two deep balls per drill. Obviously a first round talent.

After all, what greater measure of prowess in football is there besides throwing to a wideout with zero DBs in a ten mile radius?

Draft him in the first, I say. It's the only logical thing to do.

You know I read this board everyday and it is really a pleasure to see intelligent posts like this. The only thing that would make this post better is if you had referenced Gheorghe Mureşan. In all seriousness though you're right, what makes him great? No real success in college? Mediocre numbers? Height and size? The only reason anyone is talking about him is the lack of real QB talent in this draft.

GotQB?
02-24-2009, 10:20 AM
You know I read this board everyday and it is really a pleasure to see intelligent posts like this. The only thing that would make this post better is if you had referenced Gheorghe Mureşan. In all seriousness though you're right, what makes him great? No real success in college? Mediocre numbers? Height and size? The only reason anyone is talking about him is the lack of real QB talent in this draft.

Lol again who is saying he's great? I certainly am not but he has all the tools that it takes to makes a nfl QB that are NOT coach able. The things like reading a defense etc are coachable, Chebinton no offense but being a coach like you say you are (defensive coordinator) you know whats coach able and whats not. I don't think anyone here is making him out to be the next Manning, and obviously the scouts and coach's think the same with everyone rating him in this class a late 1st round talent.

-melchor-
02-24-2009, 10:47 AM
*cough*JaMarcus Russel*cough*

GotQB?
02-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Listen I don't care who you take in the draft and what they had shown in college. Your taking a chance on a guy no matter who it is when picking in the draft, the only way your gonna find out is to take him and wait and see. All this doesn't matter anyway, we are not gonna take Freeman anyway....

nensey_zy
02-24-2009, 11:06 AM
*cough*JaMarcus Russel*cough*

Russell was a better prospect than Freeman.

he at least played against good defenses and still was a monster player, and quite possibly could still be a good player if he could have some stability.

maryjanewatson
02-24-2009, 12:05 PM
You observations myopic and cynical as usual.

If you want "myopic," ignore 3 years of inconsistent play, poor reads, and bad decision making because a guy looks good in shorts. THAT is myopic.

I would absolutely love it if Freeman was better than he is - but he isn't. He's a loser who will always look more like a quarterback than he will play like one. See also: Chris Simms.

Chebington
02-24-2009, 12:21 PM
Lol again who is saying he's great? I certainly am not but he has all the tools that it takes to makes a nfl QB that are NOT coach able. The things like reading a defense etc are coachable, Chebinton no offense but being a coach like you say you are (defensive coordinator) you know whats coach able and whats not. I don't think anyone here is making him out to be the next Manning, and obviously the scouts and coach's think the same with everyone rating him in this class a late 1st round talent.

If he hasn't been able to read a defense after three years in college, what makes you think he'll be able to read smarter, faster, and more clever NFL defenses?

maryjanewatson
02-24-2009, 12:32 PM
If he hasn't been able to read a defense after three years in college, what makes you think he'll be able to read smarter, faster, and more clever NFL defenses?

He's 6'6 250, and he runs a sub-5 40...What MORE do you people want?!

PoppaPewter
02-24-2009, 12:41 PM
I have an idea Jeremy Stevens is 6'7" resign him and make him our starting QB...two words....SUPER BOWL

GotQB?
02-24-2009, 01:58 PM
If he hasn't been able to read a defense after three years in college, what makes you think he'll be able to read smarter, faster, and more clever NFL defenses?

Coach's? Maybe the offensive coordinators there blow? I don't know but apparently the kid was very impressive with his knowledge of the WCO in his interviews. Point is the kid is projected to go 1st round, obviously there's something the scouts and coach's are seeing. Not saying or projecting the kid is gonna be amazing, he's gonna be a work in progress. Again whats it matter lol we aren't gonna draft him, I'd be very surprised at this point if we do.

DeadEagle
02-24-2009, 03:24 PM
Coach's? Maybe the offensive coordinators there blow?


No... I made a post about that issue in another thread about Freeman. Definitely isn't the coaching staff.