You are the Scout....

[DeadEagle]

... how do you weigh the following when rating a pro prospect. These are the 5 principal methods to evaluate a prospect, and I'm wondering what percentage of a total breakdown do you folks assign to each.


Game Tape - all games played by the player throughout his college career


Coaches' Opinion - both the position coach and head coach evaluation/opinion


Post Career games - both the practices and games at the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, if they participated.


NFL Combine - drills, workouts and interviews. The "out of pads" stuff.


College Pro Days - similar to the Combine, but most times players do some specific position work for a much longer time than they would at Indianapolis.



A couple recent posts got me thinking about this, and I'm wondering how everyone else feels on the subject. I'll provide mine in the next post.

[uscbucsfan]

1. Game tape- depending on the level of competition I would go as high as 70%
2. Post Career Games-I would actually blend these-15%
3. Combine-7%
4. Pro Day-5%
5. Coaches Opinion-3%

these actually vary from player to player...

game tape is obviously the biggest factor, but it can be misleading because of many factors such as....lack of talent of the players around them, lack of talent in competition, scheme, system, coaching....etc

I really like post career games because it allows coaches to see how they adapt to systems against real players...not enough participate in these to really give it too much weight, then you also have to factor in who they are matching up against

the combine can show how determined and dedicated a player is to better himself and some players can really shine...and it will reflect in their drive and performance in the future.

Pro Days are pretty scripted to make the player look as good as possible...they are a much lesser version of the combine

Coaches opinions are normally like references in job interviews...they usually only say either really good things or nothing at all...hard to judge these, I have heard many "fibs" from coaches about players in the past...not really lies, just leaving out faults and building the player up to be better than they really were

[DeadEagle]

Game Tape - 50% - Not necessarily looking just at numbers, but looking at

Coaches' Opinion - 15% - they were around the players the most to this point, and got a look at their work ethic, training habits, and their interaction within the team.... both during the season and off-season. IMO, much insight can be gained from this.

Post Career games - 25% - stacked up against the best of the best, and there's no hiding. The biggest jumps after Christmas should happen here, IMO.

NFL Combine - 5% - A chance to meet the prospects, and just see what kind of shape they are in. Can't trust the college numbers for height/weight, so this is the "official" number for me.

College Pro Days - 5% - same as Combine

[Handiman1031]

I think the order you put them in is a pretty good check list to follow. Seeing how a player plays the game is the most important. The coach's opinions let you know what kind of person you are dealing with. Games like the senior bowl show you game action in which they had to digest information and put it to use quickly within a game. Combine and Pro days just give you a better idea of how athletic a player can be and what potential you see in a player that hasn't had a chance to beak out yet.

[uscbucsfan]

The more I think about this the more I think it is kind of silly to generalize this....it really varies player by player of how important each is

[real bucs fan]

I don't have access to college coaches opinion, full game tapes, or Pro Day tapes. If I did college coaches opinion would be very useful, as you can really start to grasp what type of worker they are, as would the full game tapes.

Pretty much what I have to go on are the 15-20 college games (mostly bowl games I admit) I'm able to catch a year, the highlight vids I can find of the player, and their senior bowl and combine performances.

I find highlight vids very useful. I recognize that they show only the good, but they are an excellent tool when it comes to gauging a players upside. Then I turn to stats, there actual on-field production, and then to the workouts to hopefully confirm notions, reveal concerns, and sometimes simply to open my eyes to someone I wasn't paying attention too (who I can then go back on and look at tapes of).

So it's more of a process for me, going from live games, to highlights, to readings (stats and consensus), to the senior bowl, to the combine (pro days I just use the numbers for guys that didn't work out at the combine), than a bunch of individual tools.

If I had to weigh them out, I probably value production versus situation most. Then highlight videos to gauge a players athleticism and upside. Then combine and senior bowl weeks to confirm the notions I've come to, or to reveal new concerns I might have missed.

[BucFan9720]

50% Game Film
20% Post-Career Games
5% Coach Opinion
20% NFL Combine
5% College Pro Days

[maryjanewatson]

... how do you weigh the following when rating a pro prospect. These are the 5 principal methods to evaluate a prospect, and I'm wondering what percentage of a total breakdown do you folks assign to each.


Game Tape - all games played by the player throughout his college career


Coaches' Opinion - both the position coach and head coach evaluation/opinion


Post Career games - both the practices and games at the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, if they participated.


NFL Combine - drills, workouts and interviews. The "out of pads" stuff.


College Pro Days - similar to the Combine, but most times players do some specific position work for a much longer time than they would at Indianapolis.



A couple recent posts got me thinking about this, and I'm wondering how everyone else feels on the subject. I'll provide mine in the next post.

1. Game Tape. There is no close runner up. Give me 3 years of games over 3 months in shorts any time.

2. Coach's Evaluations. Not all coaches are natural talent evaluators, but all do have some idea the kind of player they're looking for.

3. Pro Days. A guy should look very good on his "home turf" with guys he's used to practicing with. If he doesn't, that's a red flag.

4. Post-Career Games. I think if you include practices in this, there is some merit, especially for small-school guys. I think it's important to see how guys carry themselves in simulated game situations.

5. NFL Combine. I think the interviews are very useful. That's about it.

[dawgland]

... how do you weigh the following when rating a pro prospect. These are the 5 principal methods to evaluate a prospect, and I'm wondering what percentage of a total breakdown do you folks assign to each.


Game Tape - all games played by the player throughout his college career


Coaches' Opinion - both the position coach and head coach evaluation/opinion


Post Career games - both the practices and games at the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, if they participated.


NFL Combine - drills, workouts and interviews. The "out of pads" stuff.


College Pro Days - similar to the Combine, but most times players do some specific position work for a much longer time than they would at Indianapolis.



A couple recent posts got me thinking about this, and I'm wondering how everyone else feels on the subject. I'll provide mine in the next post.

Game day - 30% - sure we like to see what a guy does in real game situations, but every game? plus, if a guy like joe Flacco dominates 1AA? does that really tell us anything?

Coaches Opinion - 10% - coaches are always going to say they're players are good, and problems given would've already been known

Post Career games - 15% - It's unfortunate that these guys only get a week in post season all-star games, but it's their one chance to actually play with people who will be playing on the next level. For instance, Dominique Rodgers Cromartie, was playing at lower competition, so teams would just game plan against not going his way. Does that tell you he's a great player? not exactly because it's bad talent opposition. His stock really sky-rocketed when he went into the senior bowl and tore it up.

Combine - 25% - there's always talk about "what can a 40 time judge", but in reality, a 40 time can help you decide if a player looked fast because he was or because the play around him was slow. For instance right now, James Laurinitis just ran a 4.8, but he looked like a 4.5 LB in college. the combine is a place for GMs/Coaches/scouts can tell if the players they've been watching all year, actually have the speed and athleticism to make it at the next level. plus it allows them to compare players who they might have rated similarly. If two guys are about even, one has a great combine and the other doesn't impress, it boosts the one player up their list over the other.

Pro day - 20% - you'll hear about the 40 times that come from pro day, but those tend to be inflated, but this is where there is a lot of people focused on 1 player performing skills, and you see more reps. at the combine, it's a small time to impress, but at a pro day, there's a lot more repetition in the skills

[Duality51]

Only thing that matters to me is Game Tape and College Pro Days.

[NoAlibi]

Game tape = 25%
Combine/Pro day = 50%
Senior Bowl = 20%
Coaches' opinion = (is this coach I'm working for as a scout? or coach of the team player comes from? I'll assume the latter) 5%

[Chebington]

Game tape - 95% - Production, production, production, production, production, production, production.

Coaches Opinion - 0% - What coach? His college coach is biased, team coaches never disclose their full opinions.

Post Career games - 1% - For small school/conference guys

Combine - 2.5% - To get a feel for the player off the field, how he fits your locker-room. Could give a crap in how he does with two reps in an unfamiliar drill.

Pro Day - 1.5% - More position work is worth something.

[JudgeDredd]

Psh.... we all know how it's done.

Gametape- 0%
Coaches- 0%
Post Career Games- 0%
Combine- 100%
Proday- 0%

We all know 40 times are godly....

[PoppaPewter]

Game tape - 95% - Production, production, production, production, production, production, production.

Coaches Opinion - 0% - What coach? His college coach is biased, team coaches never disclose their full opinions.

Post Career games - 1% - For small school/conference guys

Combine - 2.5% - To get a feel for the player off the field, how he fits your locker-room. Could give a crap in how he does with two reps in an unfamiliar drill.

Pro Day - 1.5% - More position work is worth something.

Pretty much agree with this maybe I'd give that 3 % to coaches opinion to find out about work ethic, dedication, and what type of teammate they were. Then give the combine and pro day .5% each.

[BucFanInKC]

I feel obligated to contribute for some reason. :)

90% should be game play/film. Where else can you find out if the player can or is what you want in or from the player? The competition factors only slightly. How does the player play his position. Reading defenses, reading run plays, angles, leverage, vision, adjustment to the ball, etc. Player attributes.

The other 10% you can divvy up however you like. It's all secondary to game play.

[Alpha Alpha 408]

... how do you weigh the following when rating a pro prospect. These are the 5 principal methods to evaluate a prospect, and I'm wondering what percentage of a total breakdown do you folks assign to each.


Game Tape - all games played by the player throughout his college career


Coaches' Opinion - both the position coach and head coach evaluation/opinion


Post Career games - both the practices and games at the Senior Bowl and East-West Shrine game, if they participated.


NFL Combine - drills, workouts and interviews. The "out of pads" stuff.


College Pro Days - similar to the Combine, but most times players do some specific position work for a much longer time than they would at Indianapolis.



A couple recent posts got me thinking about this, and I'm wondering how everyone else feels on the subject. I'll provide mine in the next post.

1) Game Tape (60%)
2) Post Career Games (20%)
3) Coaches Opinion (10%)
4) NFL Combine (9%)
5) Pro Day (1%)

[Alpha Alpha 408]

Game day - 30% - sure we like to see what a guy does in real game situations, but every game? plus, if a guy like joe Flacco dominates 1AA? does that really tell us anything?

Coaches Opinion - 10% - coaches are always going to say they're players are good, and problems given would've already been known

Post Career games - 15% - It's unfortunate that these guys only get a week in post season all-star games, but it's their one chance to actually play with people who will be playing on the next level. For instance, Dominique Rodgers Cromartie, was playing at lower competition, so teams would just game plan against not going his way. Does that tell you he's a great player? not exactly because it's bad talent opposition. His stock really sky-rocketed when he went into the senior bowl and tore it up.

Combine - 25% - there's always talk about "what can a 40 time judge", but in reality, a 40 time can help you decide if a player looked fast because he was or because the play around him was slow. For instance right now, James Laurinitis just ran a 4.8, but he looked like a 4.5 LB in college. the combine is a place for GMs/Coaches/scouts can tell if the players they've been watching all year, actually have the speed and athleticism to make it at the next level. plus it allows them to compare players who they might have rated similarly. If two guys are about even, one has a great combine and the other doesn't impress, it boosts the one player up their list over the other.

Pro day - 20% - you'll hear about the 40 times that come from pro day, but those tend to be inflated, but this is where there is a lot of people focused on 1 player performing skills, and you see more reps. at the combine, it's a small time to impress, but at a pro day, there's a lot more repetition in the skills

So if I'm reading you correctly...how the individual actually plays during a game, doesn't even carry 50% (cumulative) of their "weight", in your mind!?

:rotf:

Seriously?

[BucFanInKC]

How does a forty yard dash equate in football? Especially with no pads on.

How many times will BJ Raji run forty yards in a straight line? The combine is good for interviewing the player and that wunderlic deal. Otherwise, it's just another arena for the media and scouting services to manipulate the draft board on mock drafting sites.

[dawgland]

So if I'm reading you correctly...how the individual actually plays during a game, doesn't even carry 50% (cumulative) of their "weight", in your mind!?

:rotf:

Seriously?

yes because for every 1 guy that looks good on tape and performs well in the NFL, there's atleast 10 that look great on tape and never make it in the NFL.

Like I said, I'd rather judge a guy by how he performs at a combine then how he performs against Tulane...

[dawgland]

How does a forty yard dash equate in football? Especially with no pads on.

How many times will BJ Raji run forty yards in a straight line? The combine is good for interviewing the player and that wunderlic deal. Otherwise, it's just another arena for the media and scouting services to manipulate the draft board on mock drafting sites.

you realize there's more drills than the 40 yard dash at the combine, right?

I love how people think the combine is only for the media.....

explains why tom coughlin and other head coaches are the ones with stop watches standing there watching the guys and timing them in drills....

If the combine wasn't important, coaches would only be part of interviews....

For some reason, i think seeing coaches timing guys at the combine is more of a telling sign that the combine actually means things than people who only think players run the 40....

[BucFanInKC]

Of course the combine is more than a forty time. Everyone knows that. The thread asks what percentage do you place on each individual factor of a college players career and evaluation therein.

Everyone has a right to opine and no one's opinion is incorrect. I do find it interesting how some place so little weight on how a player actually plays on the field.

[mr.fusion]

I think the interviews are very useful. That's about it.

I think other than the film, the interviews are the most important part........is the kid educated? Easily coachable? Well grounded? Excited about the NFL? Excited about being a part of your team? Professional? Punctual?

[dawgland]

Of course the combine is more than a forty time. Everyone knows that. The thread asks what percentage do you place on each individual factor of a college players career and evaluation therein.

Everyone has a right to opine and no one's opinion is incorrect. I do find it interesting how some place so little weight on how a player actually plays on the field.

I had my explanations....

when you consider weighing in on a players game tapes, my explanation was that considering a guy has played 3 or 4 years, there's game film on him for 3 or 4 years. when you consider the weakness of most college teams, at most, 25% of the game film is actually valuable, when you consider playing against good teams. so atleast 75% of the game film is essentially useless, I'm not going to judge a player by how he looks on tape against crappy teams.

so of the 25% of the game film that can actually consider valuable, where you can see how he performs against possible NFL level talent, then you gotta take into consideration of speed, you can put the two fastest college teams on the field and it still won't play as fast as the NFL.

plus, looking at systems, how do you judge guys who play in the spread offense in terms of NFL standards?

[Chebington]

yes because for every 1 guy that looks good on tape and performs well in the NFL, there's atleast 10 that look great on tape and never make it in the NFL.

Like I said, I'd rather judge a guy by how he performs at a combine then how he performs against Tulane...

...

Seriously?

[BucFanInKC]

I had my explanations....

when you consider weighing in on a players game tapes, my explanation was that considering a guy has played 3 or 4 years, there's game film on him for 3 or 4 years. when you consider the weakness of most college teams, at most, 25% of the game film is actually valuable, when you consider playing against good teams. so atleast 75% of the game film is essentially useless, I'm not going to judge a player by how he looks on tape against crappy teams.

so of the 25% of the game film that can actually consider valuable, where you can see how he performs against possible NFL level talent, then you gotta take into consideration of speed, you can put the two fastest college teams on the field and it still won't play as fast as the NFL.

plus, looking at systems, how do you judge guys who play in the spread offense in terms of NFL standards?

The difference between the pros and college is that there is a very good player at every position in the NFL, whereas in college there might be five to ten good players on the field at once and that's it. Whether or not a player stinks as a pro over his career has yet to be determined, but we can all agree that a player has to be pretty good to make an NFL roster.

If a college player plays against crappy teams as you call it, then that player should stand head and shoulders above the rest. If he plays against similar competition, then his skillset is more in focus. Agreed? I think we agree on that. All of us.

But, you think that is secondary to the happenings in Indianapolis each February? If I am reading your explanation correctly, only one season out of four really matters. 25%. If that is your assessment, I would say that I disagree and it doesn't make a lot of sense. The interview process is the most important thing at the combine and that is what should round out the evaluation. What are a players football smarts? Instincts. Reading plays, etc, that I explained in the posts a few up from this one. After all, he is going to be drafted to play football at the highest level, right? What other source is available to us to decide whether or not he is a football player?

How many times will the player run a 40 yard dash without pads on while playing an NFL game? How many times will a side judge run along side of him while he is doing a buttonhook and ask him if he is a dog or cat person? And will his Sociology professor be running a fly route beside him quizzing him on the reason why when people are given a plate with a piece of pie on it, do they turn the point towards them. Academics are essential, don't get me wrong and book smart players are all over the league. But I want to know if he is a football player. Is he football smart as well as educated. Game film is the main resource for that information. That is all I'm saying.

[Chebington]

The difference between the pros and college is that there is a very good player at every position in the NFL, whereas in college there might be five to ten good players on the field at once and that's it. Whether or not a player stinks as a pro over his career has yet to be determined, but we can all agree that a player has to be pretty good to make an NFL roster.

If a college player plays against crappy teams as you call it, then that player should stand head and shoulders above the rest. If he plays against similar competition, then his skillset is more in focus. Agreed? I think we agree on that. All of us.

But, you think that is secondary to the happenings in Indianapolis each February? If I am reading your explanation correctly, only one season out of four really matters. 25%. If that is your assessment, I would say that I disagree and it doesn't make a lot of sense. The interview process is the most important thing at the combine and that is what should round out the evaluation. What are a players football smarts? Instincts. Reading plays, etc, that I explained in the posts a few up from this one. After all, he is going to be drafted to play football at the highest level, right? What other source is available to us to decide whether or not he is a football player?

How many times will the player run a 40 yard dash without pads on while playing an NFL game? How many times will a side judge run along side of him while he is doing a buttonhook and ask him if he is a dog or cat person? And will his Sociology professor be running a fly route beside him quizzing him on the reason why when people are given a plate with a piece of pie on it, do they turn the point towards them. Academics are essential, don't get me wrong and book smart players are all over the league. But I want to know if he is a football player. Is he football smart as well as educated. Game film is the main resource for that information. That is all I'm saying.

Bravo, sir. Bravo.

[dawgland]

The difference between the pros and college is that there is a very good player at every position in the NFL, whereas in college there might be five to ten good players on the field at once and that's it. Whether or not a player stinks as a pro over his career has yet to be determined, but we can all agree that a player has to be pretty good to make an NFL roster.

If a college player plays against crappy teams as you call it, then that player should stand head and shoulders above the rest. If he plays against similar competition, then his skillset is more in focus. Agreed? I think we agree on that. All of us.

But, you think that is secondary to the happenings in Indianapolis each February? If I am reading your explanation correctly, only one season out of four really matters. 25%. If that is your assessment, I would say that I disagree and it doesn't make a lot of sense. The interview process is the most important thing at the combine and that is what should round out the evaluation. What are a players football smarts? Instincts. Reading plays, etc, that I explained in the posts a few up from this one. After all, he is going to be drafted to play football at the highest level, right? What other source is available to us to decide whether or not he is a football player?

How many times will the player run a 40 yard dash without pads on while playing an NFL game? How many times will a side judge run along side of him while he is doing a buttonhook and ask him if he is a dog or cat person? And will his Sociology professor be running a fly route beside him quizzing him on the reason why when people are given a plate with a piece of pie on it, do they turn the point towards them. Academics are essential, don't get me wrong and book smart players are all over the league. But I want to know if he is a football player. Is he football smart as well as educated. Game film is the main resource for that information. That is all I'm saying.

what you don't quite realize is that every drill at the combine, is used to judge a players speed. For instance, we'll take the 40 yard dash which you pointed out for example.... What does a players 40 time tell us? well first, it tells us where he ranks in terms of players at other positions. Now here's where it gets fun. A player runs a 40. his 40 time gets posted all over the internet, on ESPN, NFL network and so on. guess what, the coaches and scouts have? they have the splits. they have the 10 yard, 20 yard, and 30 yard splits.... and the most important one of that, is the 10 yard split. And how fast a player can get to the 10 yard marker is crucial in judging a players burst.

the difference between a fast time and a slow time in that 1st 10 yards, is the difference between 1st round and undrafted.

now, all of the other drills ran, are all drills ran by professional teams. so each of these teams has times for the guys already on their roster. watching the guys at the combine, they can time them and see how they compare speed-wise to players already in the league.

Like I've stated numerous times, there's reasons you see head coaches down there timing guys.

plus, the classic saying, you can teach skill, you can't teach speed.

anybody can look good on game film, game film makes graham harrell look good. game film made colt brennan look good.


plus, you can watch tape, college football is a dummied down version of the NFL. gimmick offenses and gimmick defenses give false judgments on players

[Chebington]

what you don't quite realize is that every drill at the combine, is used to judge a players speed. For instance, we'll take the 40 yard dash which you pointed out for example.... What does a players 40 time tell us? well first, it tells us where he ranks in terms of players at other positions. Now here's where it gets fun. A player runs a 40. his 40 time gets posted all over the internet, on ESPN, NFL network and so on. guess what, the coaches and scouts have? they have the splits. they have the 10 yard, 20 yard, and 30 yard splits.... and the most important one of that, is the 10 yard split. And how fast a player can get to the 10 yard marker is crucial in judging a players burst.

the difference between a fast time and a slow time in that 1st 10 yards, is the difference between 1st round and undrafted.

now, all of the other drills ran, are all drills ran by professional teams. so each of these teams has times for the guys already on their roster. watching the guys at the combine, they can time them and see how they compare speed-wise to players already in the league.

Like I've stated numerous times, there's reasons you see head coaches down there timing guys.

plus, the classic saying, you can teach skill, you can't teach speed.

anybody can look good on game film, game film makes graham harrell look good. game film made colt brennan look good.


plus, you can watch tape, college football is a dummied down version of the NFL. gimmick offenses and gimmick defenses give false judgments on players

Speed drills are okay but fundamentally flawed. Yes, they tell you if a player is fast or not. But you know those things already before they take the field based on how they play. An offensive tackle with stiff hips is not going to run a shuttle drill well, but a shutdown corner is going to. You don't need to have them put on their track spikes for that.

Let's start with the 40. You don't fire off on a set count in the 40 yard dash as you would on offense, nor do you fire off on the movement of the ball as you would on defense. You do not have to negotiate the other 21 men on the field, from getting position on a DB to fighting through trash on a sweep play. Not to mention you're without pads in shorts with track shoes.

Shuttle. You NEVER sprint one direction, touch a line, sprint back the way you came, touch another line, then sprint back towards your original destination and stop after reaching the original line you touched. That doesn't indicate change of direction abilities, as you don't slide down arbitrarily when doing so. On defense especially, leaving your feet to slide like that is a huge no-no. The only reason you do that is when a runner cuts inside and you lose your feet trying to go for an arm tackle. Which if you break down before the hit, you shouldn't be doing anyway.

Cone drill. See Shuttle. Run around, change directions arbitrarily, sprint the final 5 yards. Never gonna do it in a football game. I think that covers the speed work.

The drills there are not thorough enough. Doing two reps in an unfamiliar drill with an unfamiliar coach and unfamiliar teammates showcases what exactly? But, Cheb, I hear you say, some of these are classics. Fine. Following the football in a LB-style pass drop drill is a classic drill that tells you how quick a linebacker's feet are, hip flextion, and how quickly he can engage/disengage his backpedal. But you see that on film. You can see if an OG can pull well or not based on WHEN HE PULLS IN A GAME, not by repeating the same drill on the same count in the same direction as the ten linemen before him. Not to mention, some of those drills are downright stupid.

Some coaches time players, like Coughlin. Most I see in the stands do not sit there with a watch, because they know they can get the times off a spreadsheet from Combine officials. But whatever, I've never seen much point in scouting combines, maybe they're all drooling over a tenth of a second.

I think you confuse game film with production. Brennan, for instance, put up great production because of the system he was in. Hawaii schemed very cleverly so that one WR had an advantage in man if it was man coverage (which it rarely was), while the rest stretched zones and attacked their creases.

But when you watch film of Brennan, you should watch his footwork, where he carries the football in the pocket, his shoulders, the release point, how he responds to pressure, ability to move on rollouts and bootlegs, arm strength, how quickly he decides where to go with the football, is that a smart decision, does he stare down the safety instead of the wideout, does he telegraph the play, does he show moxy in regards to down/distance/time, how does he respond when his teammates make mistakes, does he make intelligent checks at the line of scrimmage, can he see a blitz coming, does he find his hot read quickly, can he find a throwing lane, can he create when everyone is covered, does he force the ball, how's his accuracy short and deep, can he fit it into coverage.... and on and on it goes.

These kind of personal evaluations translate to all levels and schemes of football (something I wish Josh Freeman fans understood). And while yes, these things can be coached up, by the time a player has been through high school and college ball, he's been playing anywhere between four and 15 years. He should know the particulars of his position by now, or at least have a rudimentary understanding. And if he doesn't, then it probably tells you something.

[BucFanInKC]

what you don't quite realize is that every drill at the combine, is used to judge a players speed. For instance, we'll take the 40 yard dash which you pointed out for example.... What does a players 40 time tell us? well first, it tells us where he ranks in terms of players at other positions. Now here's where it gets fun. A player runs a 40. his 40 time gets posted all over the internet, on ESPN, NFL network and so on. guess what, the coaches and scouts have? they have the splits. they have the 10 yard, 20 yard, and 30 yard splits.... and the most important one of that, is the 10 yard split. And how fast a player can get to the 10 yard marker is crucial in judging a players burst.

the difference between a fast time and a slow time in that 1st 10 yards, is the difference between 1st round and undrafted.

now, all of the other drills ran, are all drills ran by professional teams. so each of these teams has times for the guys already on their roster. watching the guys at the combine, they can time them and see how they compare speed-wise to players already in the league.

Like I've stated numerous times, there's reasons you see head coaches down there timing guys.

plus, the classic saying, you can teach skill, you can't teach speed.

anybody can look good on game film, game film makes graham harrell look good. game film made colt brennan look good.


plus, you can watch tape, college football is a dummied down version of the NFL. gimmick offenses and gimmick defenses give false judgments on players

I think most of us here said Brennan wouldn't be a good pro QB based on his college career and he is a prime example. Harrell on the other hand would stand a much better chance to excel at the pro level. He is taller, has a better arm and fit the prototypical mold of a QB. We could see that on film and don't need the workout aspects of the combine to confirm that, do we?

[BucFan2002]

let me first say that I have no affiliation with the Utah football program or their conference. However, I watched the Sugar Bowl and by the end of the first quarter I was amazed by the entire football team but especially the Utah wide receiver corps. The play by senior WRs (#88) Freddie Brown and (#81) Bradon Godfrey left me hoping that the Bucs' Scouts, coaches, GM, and owner(s) were either watching or taping the game. By the end of the game, I was wishing I had their cell number. Even today, I'm still in amazement over the talent and coaching of the Utah wide receivers.

I must say that Godfrey reminded me of Joe Jurevicious and Brandon Stokley with his ability to catch passes in traffic, great routes, and with his toughness. Freddie Brown reminded me of a younger Joey Galloway and Ike Hillard with his speed, great hands, and tough catches in key situations.

In case you missed the game, Utah alum' Steve Smith (Carolina Panthers), was on the Utah sideline. I had to ask myself if he was there merely cheering on his college team or was he there scouting for the Panthers. I sure hope that we can beat Carolina (and others) to taking a deep look at their senior WRs and coaching staff. I watched part of the WR combines and didn't see any of them there.

In addition to their seniors, they have an impressive junior WR (#16) David Reed that is also worth taking a look at. He definitely reminded me of Steve Smith. The SR QB (#3, Brian Johnson) also did an excellent job in executing their game plan which had 3 or 4 WR formation on every play. He was quickly able to read the opposing defense and had excellent timing with his WR corps.

Regarding the coaching, I have to acknowledge the WR coach, Aaron Roderick, and Offensive Coordinator, Andy Ludwig in addition to the head coach, Kyle Whittingham. I don't know much about these coaches but I sure hope the Bucs will take a look at what these coaches and players have accomplished.

In closing, I know the Bucs need a lot of help know with their image and I believe with a better WR corps (and possibly coaching), the Bucs can significantly improve thier scoring.