Mike Doss on the block

Colts | Team reportedly looking to trade Doss
Sun, 1 Oct 2006 10:32:34 -0700

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the Indianapolis Colts have reportedly put S Mike Doss on the trade block. Several teams told FOXSports.com they heard the Colts had been offering Doss in trade talks.

I say trade them Booger for Doss. Then bench Phillips since Allen and Doss played together in college.

[UMiamiBucFan]

If we had a UT that was better than Booger, I'd make the trade.

We do: Ellis Wyms, Chris Hovan, Greg Spires, Dewayne White, all of them would be better.

[Chebington]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

I say trade them Booger for Doss. Then bench Phillips since Allen and Doss played together in college.

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Sadly, Dungy's not that stupid.

[Q-man]

Why would the Colts want Booger? They already have a DT
that can't stay healthy and contribute in Corey Simon!
I would make that trade! But, I think the Bucs would take a
big hit on the salary cap.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

We do: Ellis Wyms, Chris Hovan, Greg Spires, Dewayne White, all of them would be better.

White and Spires aren't big enough to handle DT on every down. Good 3rd down pass rushing DT, but not as an every down DT.

Hovan wouldn't make a better UT than Booger. Remember we're still waiting on Hovan's first Buc sack. Granted its not his primary job to get sacks, he's still not getting them. (Primary job is to draw two blockers, but then he should try and fight through them).

And if Wyms was the starter, he probably won't be bad. Probably would be a bit worse against the run than Booger. BUT the big problem is, who the heck is going to rotate with him? We have a grand total of 3 DTs on our roster. Wyms, Booger, and Hovan. Jenkins shouldn't even be on the field if you want to count him as a DT. (Still bitter he was drafted over Mark Anderson, who has 2.5 sacks).

Booger may be overpaid, but he's not a bad player. He's a great athlete and is pretty good at getting off the ball. He's just too inconsistent. Doesn't have the desire or drive that Sapp had.

[Public Enemy II]

Make the trade and promote big Anthony Bryant to the active roster.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

Make the trade and promote big Anthony Bryant to the active roster.

I don't think you can get rid of your starting UT and replace him with a PS player. I'm all for bringing Bryant up and seeing how he can do, but I don't want to throw all my eggs in one basket.

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

White and Spires aren't big enough to handle DT on every down. Good 3rd down pass rushing DT, but not as an every down DT.

Hovan wouldn't make a better UT than Booger. Remember we're still waiting on Hovan's first Buc sack. Granted its not his primary job to get sacks, he's still not getting them. (Primary job is to draw two blockers, but then he should try and fight through them).

And if Wyms was the starter, he probably won't be bad. Probably would be a bit worse against the run than Booger. BUT the big problem is, who the heck is going to rotate with him? We have a grand total of 3 DTs on our roster. Wyms, Booger, and Hovan. Jenkins shouldn't even be on the field if you want to count him as a DT. (Still bitter he was drafted over Mark Anderson, who has 2.5 sacks).

Booger may be overpaid, but he's not a bad player. He's a great athlete and is pretty good at getting off the ball. He's just too inconsistent. Doesn't have the desire or drive that Sapp had.

Just looking at the numbers he's our worst defensive lineman + his fat paycheck = bad player, period. He's going to be cut anyway, may as well try to get something for him.

We can make the DT rotation work with Spires and White, both have experience inside.

[Public Enemy II]

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

I don't think you can get rid of your starting UT and replace him with a PS player. I'm all for bringing Bryant up and seeing how he can do, but I don't want to throw all my eggs in one basket.

Me either, but at this point what do we have to lose. You play in this league to win a championship.....period, and we are leaps & bounds away from being a Superbowl contender right now.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

Just looking at the numbers he's our worst defensive lineman + his fat paycheck = bad player, period. He's going to be cut anyway, may as well try to get something for him.

We can make the DT rotation work with Spires and White, both have experience inside.

Spires is our worst starter, Booger is still better than him. He's got ability, just not consistency. He does have a fat paycheck, but when you are looking at who your 53 players are, you get your best players regardless of salary. Tim Rattay is making 1.25 million and he's the backup to a guy that's making the rookie minimum. So his fat paycheck shouldn't factor in at all. Not to mention the fact that its a big deterrant to the Colts to trade for Booger. In fact, I would venture to say they can't fit his salary numbers under their cap.

When you only have 7 DL on the entire team, you don't get rid of one of your top 4. This isn't Madden.

[Public Enemy II]

Like my other thread, I think we should start White in place of Spires, slide Hovan to UT and have Bryant draw 2 lineman from the NT position. We then can have Spires, Wymms, and Booger (pending trade) rotating accordingly.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

Me either, but at this point what do we have to lose. You play in this league to win a championship.....period, and we are leaps & bounds away from being a Superbowl contender right now.

Its too early in the season (despite the 0-3) to be making drastic changes or starting a youth movement.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

Like my other thread, I think we should start White in place of Spires, slide Hovan to UT and have Bryant draw 2 lineman from the NT position. We then can have Spires, Wymms, and Booger (pending trade) rotating accordingly.

Hey, I'm all for trying it. I just don't think you should get rid of Booger and HOPE Bryant pans out.

[Public Enemy II]

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

Its too early in the season (despite the 0-3) to be making drastic changes or starting a youth movement.

I agree. I'm not saying we need to make changes right now, but depending on the outcome of the Saints game or maybe even the week after....we need to see some adjustments and get some youngsters some playing time.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

I agree. I'm not saying we need to make changes right now, but depending on the outcome of the Saints game or maybe even the week after....we need to see some adjustments and get some youngsters some playing time.

I'm not sure Gruden will ever go with a youth movement. I don't think he cares whether they're 15-0 or 0-15, he is going to try and win that week 16 game. Remember, a lot of people pay to go to the stadium and watch the game. Coaches honestly feel like they are letting down the entire city by losing.

Though I would want a youth movement upon official elimination from the playoffs, I think the only young players we will see playing will be when Gruden gets so fed up with particular players, he benches them.

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

Spires is our worst starter, Booger is still better than him.

I strongly disagree.

When you only have 7 DL on the entire team, you don't get rid of one of your top 4. This isn't Madden.

This also isn't a contending team. We'll know before the trading deadline whether we need to start all-out rebuilding. When that happens, dead-weight veterans (like Booger) are benched, traded, or let go and youngsters (like Dewayne) get the starts or are brought up from the practice squad (like Charles Bennet and Fatty Bryant). We need to see what these guys have to offer, we know what Booger has (not much).

[Public Enemy II]

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

I'm not sure Gruden will ever go with a youth movement. I don't think he cares whether they're 15-0 or 0-15, he is going to try and win that week 16 game. Remember, a lot of people pay to go to the stadium and watch the game. Coaches honestly feel like they are letting down the entire city by losing.

Though I would want a youth movement upon official elimination from the playoffs, I think the only young players we will see playing will be when Gruden gets so fed up with particular players, he benches them.

Sad, but true. You can find me on my couch with a soda and a sandwich every Sunday, whether we win or lose, but being totally honest.......I don't think we'll be a play-off caliber team for a few seasons at least.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

I strongly disagree.

This also isn't a contending team. We'll know before the trading deadline whether we need to start all-out rebuilding. When that happens, dead-weight veterans (like Booger) are benched, traded, or let go and youngsters (like Dewayne) get the starts or are brought up from the practice squad (like Charles Bennet and Fatty Bryant). We need to see what these guys have to offer, we know what Booger has (not much).

Read #16. It won't happen. To quote a coach that I think is overrated, "You play to win the game." Doesn't matter what your record is. You play to win the game. Kiffin sees what Bryant and Bennett bring to the table everyday in practice. He knows exactly how good/bad they are. If he thought they gave the Bucs the best chance to win, he'd stick them in there. They don't, so he isn't. While they would probably benefit from some playing time, its not in the best interest of the Bucs to put anything but your best players on the field.

Also, for disagreeing over which is better between Spires and Booger, we'll have to just agree to disagree. IMHO, Spires is awful against the run while Booger is too inconsistent at everything.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

Sad, but true. You can find me on my couch with a soda and a sandwich every Sunday, whether we win or lose, but being totally honest.......I don't think we'll be a play-off caliber team for a few seasons at least.

Probably true. I was hoping our defense would be able to slowly grow into the next generation, replacing our stars one at a time. However, it looks like a lot of our main defenders have slowed down and we can't be competitive with them on our roster. Its too bad we found this out a year too late too, because there was a great OLB available (Will Witherspoon) that would have made a fine replacement for D Brooks. Not to mention some quality DE pass rushers (like Manny Lawson) available in the draft.

To compete with the speed of Steve Smith, Warrick Dunn, Michael Vick, Reggie Bush and DeAngelo Williams of the NFC South, we need some serious speed. We don't have it anymore.

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

Read #16. It won't happen. To quote a coach that I think is overrated, "You play to win the game." Doesn't matter what your record is. You play to win the game. Kiffin sees what Bryant and Bennett bring to the table everyday in practice. He knows exactly how good/bad they are. If he thought they gave the Bucs the best chance to win, he'd stick them in there. They don't, so he isn't. While they would probably benefit from some playing time, its not in the best interest of the Bucs to put anything but your best players on the field.

So if we're 0-6 and our defense continues to look like poop, we should still keep all our useless veterans in instead of the youngsters? That's a prideful and short-sighted strategy IMO. If we're 2-4 or 3-3 then I agree, go for it.

[Public Enemy II]

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

Probably true. I was hoping our defense would be able to slowly grow into the next generation, replacing our stars one at a time. However, it looks like a lot of our main defenders have slowed down and we can't be competitive with them on our roster. Its too bad we found this out a year too late too, because there was a great OLB available (Will Witherspoon) that would have made a fine replacement for D Brooks. Not to mention some quality DE pass rushers (like Manny Lawson) available in the draft.

To compete with the speed of Steve Smith, Warrick Dunn, Michael Vick, Reggie Bush and DeAngelo Williams of the NFC South, we need some serious speed. We don't have it anymore.

I couldn't agree more. It was only a matter of time though, as our shining stars can't shine forever. It took Gruden way too long for him to implement his "dynamic" WCO and in doing so the defense aged and aged and aged some more without replenishing it.

Within the next 2 years or so, we're looking at a totally brand new and unfamiliar squad. There isn't going to be those Buccaneer iconic type players such as Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, or Shelton Quarles, etc., to depend on and give us that little bit of hope we so desperately need right now.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

So if we're 0-6 and our defense continues to look like poop, we should still keep all our useless veterans in instead of the youngsters? That's a prideful and short-sighted strategy IMO. If we're 2-4 or 3-3 then I agree, go for it.

Kiffin is going to play his best players every week. He might mix it up (like having Ruud take over MLB and Quarles at OLB or Zemaitis getting activated and playing some nickel), but I doubt you will see wholesale changes. It is a short-sighted strategy. But you play to win next week, not next year. Remember, this isn't what we would do, this is what Gruden/Kiffin would do.

Personally, I'm all in favor of a youth movement on D, I just think its already too late and we don't have good enough backups to replace some of those defenders.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

I couldn't agree more. It was only a matter of time though, as our shining stars can't shine forever. It took Gruden way too long for him to implement his "dynamic" WCO and in doing so the defense aged and aged and aged some more without replenishing it.

Within the next 2 years or so, we're looking at a totally brand new and unfamiliar squad. There isn't going to be those Buccaneer iconic type players such as Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, or Shelton Quarles, etc., to depend on and give us that little bit of hope we so desperately need right now.

To be honest, I'm a little worried about Kiffin. He ultimately has to take the blame for what is happening on the defense. I know Gruden has been hogging most of the draft picks, and its understandable that it took Gruden this long to get in some young offensive players (given the bounty we gave up for Gruden). But Kiffin has to be able to tell the difference between the way Brooks used to play and how he plays today. He's still got great instincts and makes plays at crucial moments, but he's missing tackles and not getting there in time. Kiffin had to have seen the speed difference.

I hope that the entire next draft is devoted to defense. I'm even willing to ignore offensive linemen (seriously, we have invested too much already). I think we need a DT, DE, LB, S and CB. More speed, thank you.

[XTrenTX]

Why would anyone want Mike Doss?

Originally Posted by XTrenTX

Why would anyone want Mike Doss?

Because he might be better than Jermaine Phillips.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by AquaVelvaMon

Because he might be better than Jermaine Phillips.

Both have started for the past 4 years, their stats:
Jermaine Phillips - 39 games, 138 tackles, 37 assists, 1 sack, 2 INT, 3 FF, 10 PD
Mike Doss - 44 games, 182 tackles, 1 sack, 6 INT, 6 FF, 8 PD

So Doss has slightly better numbers, but not significantly.

[Public Enemy II]

Originally Posted by UMiamiBucFan

To be honest, I'm a little worried about Kiffin. He ultimately has to take the blame for what is happening on the defense. I know Gruden has been hogging most of the draft picks, and its understandable that it took Gruden this long to get in some young offensive players (given the bounty we gave up for Gruden). But Kiffin has to be able to tell the difference between the way Brooks used to play and how he plays today. He's still got great instincts and makes plays at crucial moments, but he's missing tackles and not getting there in time. Kiffin had to have seen the speed difference.

Absolutely, it's so blatantly obvious that DB isn't anywhere near the same as what he used to be it hurts. Granted, he's still probably better than half the players at his position right now. And you're right about Kiffin, I would be unbelievably ****ed if I were him given the position he's in now.

I hope that the entire next draft is devoted to defense. I'm even willing to ignore offensive linemen (seriously, we have invested too much already). I think we need a DT, DE, LB, S and CB. More speed, thank you.

This is where fans such as ourselves are let down in a big way. We NEED to devote at least 75% of our draft to our beloved defense, but will it happen........probably not. For the most part I agree with the selections we need to make in the draft other than safety and LB. We should look at investing our 1st pick in either a prime, Sapp-like d-lineman or a stout, super-talented (and fast) CB. White, looks promising so we need to look at a replacement for Rice soon, but I think we need to take a look at some quality free agents to boost our safety and LB core.

[Basic Buc]

no way. Phillips I think has been a bright spot for the D this year. We havnt been burned deep and hes been laying some serious wood. Probably the only one on defense that is. He had a couple huge hits in Atlanta and I never got to see the Carolina game. I dont think we need to get rid of Phillips. Our run defense is obviously the problem and trading away for pass coverage wont help. Run sets up the pass so lets take care of that.

[UMiamiBucFan]

Originally Posted by Public Enemy II

This is where fans such as ourselves are let down in a big way. We NEED to devote at least 75% of our draft to our beloved defense, but will it happen........probably not. For the most part I agree with the selections we need to make in the draft other than safety and LB. We should look at investing our 1st pick in either a prime, Sapp-like d-lineman or a stout, super-talented (and fast) CB. White, looks promising so we need to look at a replacement for Rice soon, but I think we need to take a look at some quality free agents to boost our safety and LB core.

I think for our defense, we would probably get better value with that first round pick on a DL or a LB than a CB. Remember, we can take 2nd-5th round DBs and have them be successful. Also, we are slightly younger at CB than LB. So we can afford to let them develop for an extra year. I think speed at LB is how we are going to address the Reggie, DeAngelo, DeShaun, Dunn, Norwood, Vick problem. We also need to get back to the days of forcing pressure up the middle, but I don't see any great DTs in the draft yet.

But certainly, this team needs youth and speed. Otherwise, they are undersized and slow.