Why Gruden should stay our coach.

[BucFanFrom1976]

First of let’s give a little history lesson. When Gruden got here we were at the end of our window on winning a Superbowl. Our star players were starting to get a little long in the tooth and our contracts with these players were starting to come home to roost. We had 1 maybe 2 more years of opportunity to get it done. That’s why the Glazers decided Dungy just wasn’t going to get it done (since proven by the Colts). They tried to get Bill Parcells to try to take us over the hump. When that didn’t happen we were in trouble, there were no experienced coaches available to get us over the hump quickly. So the Glazer’s bit the bullet and paid a lot to get Jon Gruden from the Raiders. In fact many said we paid too much. However when we won the Superbowl the following year, the price seemed small. However that price would come back to haunt us, as we all knew it would. But the Lombardi Trophy was worth it. The Glazer’s took a huge gamble and it paid off, kudos to them for it. Any team in the NFL would trade the draft picks we did and the money for a Lombardi (except maybe the Patriots).

Then the next season rolled around (2003), we tried to defend the trophy by keeping the team together and sacrificing our future cap to do it. Injuries and the Colt’s game kept us from realizing our goal that season. But, the price had already been paid.

The 2004 season we were in full fledge cap hell, make no mistake we were cap strapped. We lost some of our aging stars and made a lot of very tough choices. With the little money we did have we tried to get some FA players to fill the gap. As with most players not at the top level of Free Agency, most did not work out. We did however have good draft and started to rectify the cap problems. This was the year we really started the rebuilding of the Buc’s.
Last year (2005) was probably one of the best coaching jobs done in Buc’s history. To take a bunch of rookies and unproven players on offense to an 11-5 record and a division title was one of Gruden’s career highlights. Probably even a better coaching job than the Superbowl year.

Now this year rolled around. We all had high hopes after last year, but it just wasn’t to be. A brutal schedule combined with continued cap problems, losing our defensive coaches, injuries and a defense that started to fall off all combined to create a “perfect storm” of sorts. Last year’s easy schedule, helped us to create a sense of good things to come that was flawed. We still are very inexperienced on offense, even more so now that we have three rookie starters including our QB. It takes time to rebuild in this league and it shows. This many 1st and 2nd year players need time to learn. That’s just the facts. Even the triplets in Dallas took a few years to get it together if you remember correctly. It just doesn’t happen overnight. OK, end of history lesson.

Firing Gruden will do nothing more than set the rebuilding back a couple more years. He is a good coach trying to do the best he can with what he has. The recent drafts have been much better and next year we have the cap room to sign some real impact free agents. The 1st and 2nd year players will have another year under their belt and things should definitely start to improve. We can’t have as tough a schedule next year either. The formula for success in this league is consistency. The teams that do well year in and year out have the same coaches, with little turnover. They don’t switch coaches and front office personnel all the time to find the one who produces miracles. They find a good young coach, give him the time to grow and stick with him. Remember Gruden is only 44 years old, still very young in coaching circles. Give him time and he will be a genius again. Now I’m not saying Gruden is perfect, but I am saying that he is a good coach and if given time, he will bring us another Lombardi trophy. Remember Gruden came here when we were at or near the top of the talent cycle, he had nowhere to go but down. Sure there have been mistakes, show me a coach or organization that hasn’t made any. But overall I think more good decisions than bad have been made in the last few years. I do think we are going in the right direction. We just need patience, vision, perspective and a little time and we will be back on top. But for God’s sake don’t fire him because the last thing we need is going back to the old days of firing a coach every 3 years cause they couldn’t turn the Buc’s around in a short period of time. He has after all won 2 division titles and a Superbowl. He has done the best he could with what he had every year and no one can take away how hard of a worker he is. IMHO he deserves at least another 2 years.

[Hobbes]

do you agree that the playcalling is terrible?

[Buccs99]

The 2004 season we were in full fledge cap hell, make no mistake we were cap strapped. We lost some of our aging stars and made a lot of very tough choices. With the little money we did have we tried to get some FA players to fill the gap. As with most players not at the top level of Free Agency, most did not work out. We did however have good draft and started to rectify the cap problems. This was the year we really started the rebuilding of the Buc’s.
Last year (2005) was probably one of the best coaching jobs done in Buc’s history. To take a bunch of rookies and unproven players on offense to an 11-5 record and a division title was one of Gruden’s career highlights. Probably even a better coaching job than the Superbowl year

Thanks to Gruden and Allen bringing in guys like Garner, Stuessie, Deese, etc. counted to be a BIG hit on the cap.

A gruden mistake that could happen again this year. I dont want it. We need to start fresh while these guys are still young.

[navybuc81]

Originally Posted by Buccs99

Thanks to Gruden and Allen bringing in guys like Garner, Stuessie, Deese, etc. counted to be a BIG hit on the cap.

I hate that argument b/c every team and GM brings in a couple guys that end up being big mistakes and end up being a waste of cap space. Even the great Rich McKay brought in the Jamie Duncans, Bert Emannuelle and Marcus Jones' of the world. These guys look good on paper, the GM/coach says let's give them a shot, and they end up getting being a bust.

[Alpha Alpha 408]

Very articulate, well thought out and lucid.

Now...prepare to get wasted.

Enjoy.

[Buccs99]

Originally Posted by navybuc81

I hate that argument b/c every team and GM brings in a couple guys that end up being big mistakes and end up being a waste of cap space. Even the great Rich McKay brought in the Jamie Duncans, Bert Emannuelle and Marcus Jones' of the world. These guys look good on paper, the GM/coach says let's give them a shot, and they end up getting being a bust.

Marcus Jones and Jamie Duncan were drafted. Duncan lasted two seasons as he was the replacement for Hardy and Marcus flopped after a 13 sack season. Then we cut him.


Gruden brought in Garner who was coming off a bad knee injury. 20 million dollars and 3 games later, his career was done.

Stuessie was resigned for 20 mil. and last the rest of that season.

Deese last one disappointing season.

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

Firing Gruden will do nothing more than set the rebuilding back a couple more years.

Best of two evils, terminate him now. I don't want him anywhere near our draft boards or FA aquisitions next year. We're sitting on the cusp of wonderful draft slots next season...and real cap room..... Keep Gruden OUT of that.




Fire Gruden now? Contenders in two seasons.

Fire Gruden next year? Contenders in four to five years.

[BucFanFrom1976]

I do think we need to replace a few of our offensive coaches. Namely Muir and Hackett. I think they have made us to conservative and predictable in Hacketts case and the oline has underperformed for years under Muir. So I do think we could use a new influx of coaching on offense if to do nothing more than spice it up a bit. I also think the playcalling has been hampered by the inexperience on the offensive side of the ball.

[BearLandBucFan]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

First of let’s give a little history lesson. When Gruden got here we were at the end of our window on winning a Superbowl. Our star players were starting to get a little long in the tooth and our contracts with these players were starting to come home to roost. We had 1 maybe 2 more years of opportunity to get it done. That’s why the Glazers decided Dungy just wasn’t going to get it done (since proven by the Colts). They tried to get Bill Parcells to try to take us over the hump. When that didn’t happen we were in trouble, there were no experienced coaches available to get us over the hump quickly. So the Glazer’s bit the bullet and paid a lot to get Jon Gruden from the Raiders. In fact many said we paid too much. However when we won the Superbowl the following year, the price seemed small. However that price would come back to haunt us, as we all knew it would. But the Lombardi Trophy was worth it. The Glazer’s took a huge gamble and it paid off, kudos to them for it. Any team in the NFL would trade the draft picks we did and the money for a Lombardi (except maybe the Patriots).

Then the next season rolled around (2003), we tried to defend the trophy by keeping the team together and sacrificing our future cap to do it. Injuries and the Colt’s game kept us from realizing our goal that season. But, the price had already been paid.

The 2004 season we were in full fledge cap hell, make no mistake we were cap strapped. We lost some of our aging stars and made a lot of very tough choices. With the little money we did have we tried to get some FA players to fill the gap. As with most players not at the top level of Free Agency, most did not work out. We did however have good draft and started to rectify the cap problems. This was the year we really started the rebuilding of the Buc’s.
Last year (2005) was probably one of the best coaching jobs done in Buc’s history. To take a bunch of rookies and unproven players on offense to an 11-5 record and a division title was one of Gruden’s career highlights. Probably even a better coaching job than the Superbowl year.

Now this year rolled around. We all had high hopes after last year, but it just wasn’t to be. A brutal schedule combined with continued cap problems, losing our defensive coaches, injuries and a defense that started to fall off all combined to create a “perfect storm” of sorts. Last year’s easy schedule, helped us to create a sense of good things to come that was flawed. We still are very inexperienced on offense, even more so now that we have three rookie starters including our QB. It takes time to rebuild in this league and it shows. This many 1st and 2nd year players need time to learn. That’s just the facts. Even the triplets in Dallas took a few years to get it together if you remember correctly. It just doesn’t happen overnight. OK, end of history lesson.

Firing Gruden will do nothing more than set the rebuilding back a couple more years. He is a good coach trying to do the best he can with what he has. The recent drafts have been much better and next year we have the cap room to sign some real impact free agents. The 1st and 2nd year players will have another year under their belt and things should definitely start to improve. We can’t have as tough a schedule next year either. The formula for success in this league is consistency. The teams that do well year in and year out have the same coaches, with little turnover. They don’t switch coaches and front office personnel all the time to find the one who produces miracles. They find a good young coach, give him the time to grow and stick with him. Remember Gruden is only 44 years old, still very young in coaching circles. Give him time and he will be a genius again. Now I’m not saying Gruden is perfect, but I am saying that he is a good coach and if given time, he will bring us another Lombardi trophy. Remember Gruden came here when we were at or near the top of the talent cycle, he had nowhere to go but down. Sure there have been mistakes, show me a coach or organization that hasn’t made any. But overall I think more good decisions than bad have been made in the last few years. I do think we are going in the right direction. We just need patience, vision, perspective and a little time and we will be back on top. But for God’s sake don’t fire him because the last thing we need is going back to the old days of firing a coach every 3 years cause they couldn’t turn the Buc’s around in a short period of time. He has after all won 2 division titles and a Superbowl. He has done the best he could with what he had every year and no one can take away how hard of a worker he is. IMHO he deserves at least another 2 years.

Okay, I will give you that you put a great deal of thought into this post however it does have some flaws.

Coaching but trying not to lose and then getting wins is not too difficult. As you pointed out we had a VERY WEAK schedule last year. However teams we should have trounced, we barely beat them, teams we had no business losing to, we lost.

The problem isn't JUST GRUDEN

it's that we are trying to rebuild... instead of to BUILD...

everything about our organization is decaying right in front of our eyes

we are an NFL Team and need to stop blaming X, Y, and Z

last year we were the best of the worst... what did we do right? madeless mistakes than our opponent... all you have to do is look at our wins this year and see the exact same thing

I pointed out last week that since Gruden's hire, there are 22 NEWER head coaches. All of which except for Art Shell are beating our team offensively.

Rookies? Young players? this isn't new to ANY team.

Shoot... Rice got SCHOOLED by a rookie as did our DB's

Bad teams FIND excuses.

we are a BAD TEAM

not a good team with bad coaches... or vice versa

the only way to change that is not to REBUILD... but to tear it down and completely build it ANEW...

will it hurt? yeah

but we aren't seeing anything at all that can be considered progress on the field right now... nothing

Is it Gruden's fault? maybe but not entirely his fault...

the problem is HE is a PART of the PROBLEM

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by Alpha Alpha 408

Very articulate, well thought out and lucid.

Now...prepare to get wasted.

Enjoy.

Oh I expect to be flamed. But it will all be the 1 or 2 sentence type that make no real argument other than their opinion, which is worthless. They won't state facts, unless they are taken out of context or better yet they will resort to calling me a homer or a Gruden lover. Because they have no real ground to stand on.

[Pewterslimsme]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

First of let’s give a little history lesson. When Gruden got here we were at the end of our window on winning a Superbowl. Our star players were starting to get a little long in the tooth and our contracts with these players were starting to come home to roost. We had 1 maybe 2 more years of opportunity to get it done. That’s why the Glazers decided Dungy just wasn’t going to get it done (since proven by the Colts). They tried to get Bill Parcells to try to take us over the hump. When that didn’t happen we were in trouble, there were no experienced coaches available to get us over the hump quickly. So the Glazer’s bit the bullet and paid a lot to get Jon Gruden from the Raiders. In fact many said we paid too much. However when we won the Superbowl the following year, the price seemed small. However that price would come back to haunt us, as we all knew it would. But the Lombardi Trophy was worth it. The Glazer’s took a huge gamble and it paid off, kudos to them for it. Any team in the NFL would trade the draft picks we did and the money for a Lombardi (except maybe the Patriots).

Then the next season rolled around (2003), we tried to defend the trophy by keeping the team together and sacrificing our future cap to do it. Injuries and the Colt’s game kept us from realizing our goal that season. But, the price had already been paid.

The 2004 season we were in full fledge cap hell, make no mistake we were cap strapped. We lost some of our aging stars and made a lot of very tough choices. With the little money we did have we tried to get some FA players to fill the gap. As with most players not at the top level of Free Agency, most did not work out. We did however have good draft and started to rectify the cap problems. This was the year we really started the rebuilding of the Buc’s.
Last year (2005) was probably one of the best coaching jobs done in Buc’s history. To take a bunch of rookies and unproven players on offense to an 11-5 record and a division title was one of Gruden’s career highlights. Probably even a better coaching job than the Superbowl year.

Now this year rolled around. We all had high hopes after last year, but it just wasn’t to be. A brutal schedule combined with continued cap problems, losing our defensive coaches, injuries and a defense that started to fall off all combined to create a “perfect storm” of sorts. Last year’s easy schedule, helped us to create a sense of good things to come that was flawed. We still are very inexperienced on offense, even more so now that we have three rookie starters including our QB. It takes time to rebuild in this league and it shows. This many 1st and 2nd year players need time to learn. That’s just the facts. Even the triplets in Dallas took a few years to get it together if you remember correctly. It just doesn’t happen overnight. OK, end of history lesson.

Firing Gruden will do nothing more than set the rebuilding back a couple more years. He is a good coach trying to do the best he can with what he has. The recent drafts have been much better and next year we have the cap room to sign some real impact free agents. The 1st and 2nd year players will have another year under their belt and things should definitely start to improve. We can’t have as tough a schedule next year either. The formula for success in this league is consistency. The teams that do well year in and year out have the same coaches, with little turnover. They don’t switch coaches and front office personnel all the time to find the one who produces miracles. They find a good young coach, give him the time to grow and stick with him. Remember Gruden is only 44 years old, still very young in coaching circles. Give him time and he will be a genius again. Now I’m not saying Gruden is perfect, but I am saying that he is a good coach and if given time, he will bring us another Lombardi trophy. Remember Gruden came here when we were at or near the top of the talent cycle, he had nowhere to go but down. Sure there have been mistakes, show me a coach or organization that hasn’t made any. But overall I think more good decisions than bad have been made in the last few years. I do think we are going in the right direction. We just need patience, vision, perspective and a little time and we will be back on top. But for God’s sake don’t fire him because the last thing we need is going back to the old days of firing a coach every 3 years cause they couldn’t turn the Buc’s around in a short period of time. He has after all won 2 division titles and a Superbowl. He has done the best he could with what he had every year and no one can take away how hard of a worker he is. IMHO he deserves at least another 2 years.

Mr. Allen...shouldn't you be getting ready for the game tonight?

[navybuc81]

Originally Posted by Buccs99

Marcus Jones and Jamie Duncan were drafted. Duncan lasted two seasons as he was the replacement for Hardy and Marcus flopped after a 13 sack season. Then we cut him.


Gruden brought in Garner who was coming off a bad knee injury. 20 million dollars and 3 games later, his career was done.

Stuessie was resigned for 20 mil. and last the rest of that season.

Deese last one disappointing season.

Whatever the reason may be, they stunk. It was bad draft moves thinking those guys could start. And choosing Travis Stephens over Brian Westbrook was maybe McKay's dumbest move. I like Allen as a GM. Gruden i'm not so high on, but i think Allen has done good things fixing the salary cap mess this team was in and he was able to get a lot of our players to restructure deals and now we're in great shape for next year.

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by Pewterslimsme

Mr. Allen...shouldn't you be getting ready for the game tonight?

See post #10.

[Pewterslimsme]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

See post #10.

See every thread on this message board. How many times should we put thought into the same regurgitated crap? Homers will always be homers.

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by Pewterslimsme

See every thread on this message board. How many times should we put thought into the same regurgitated crap? Homers will always be homers.

Very good. Three sentences, thats one over the limit. I hope that didn't hurt your brain.

[Alpha Alpha 408]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

Very good. Three sentences, thats one over the limit. I hope that didn't hurt your brain.

Priceless.

Nice call.

everybody is treating gruden like it's the worst thing tht ever happened to th bucs... HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO u idiots.... john gruden is the best thing tht ever happened to us... ppl say bring dungy back - again i say HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO u idiots.... it's been proven throughout th last few years tht dungy can't get th job done... and will choke again this year... dungy helped us alot, yes i'll give him tht... he's been helping the colts too... but tht's all he's doing... he can't give those ppl what they want either...
one other thing... again as i say - HELLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO u idiots... one man does not make a team... gruden isn't on tht field... th team is... it takes a team to win a game and a team to lose a game... what happened to us is th same thing tht happened to th steelers... we lost tht biggest heart tht kept us beating... unfortunately it'll take a lil bit to regroup... when someone has a heart transplant - they're not on their feet th next day...
it takes time to heal... warren sapp is not th best player in th nfl, neither is jerome bettis... but they had th biggest heart to keep th strive... win or lose...
well? we're regrouping, like th steelers are doing...
so... to all u idiots who think gruden is th problem... KEEP UR PANTIES ON AND RELAX... good things come to those who wait... we won a superbowl... we WILL win another one... sorry it's not at ur convenience...

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by Alpha Alpha 408

Priceless.

Nice call.

Thanks

[Kress]

Originally Posted by Hobbesx2

do you agree that the playcalling is terrible?

Last night it wasn't. That was the first game this season where I can actually say that I agreed with the playcalling. Gruden didn't dazzle us, I'll give you that, but he didn't do anything that made me bash my head against the wall, either.

[BucFanFrom1976]

I agree. Last night I thought the playcalling was pretty good. However the execution was terrible at times. We are really giving our rookies a trial by fire. It will pay off in the long run, but can be hard to watch in the meantime.

[Kress]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

I agree. Last night I thought the playcalling was pretty good. However the execution was terrible at times.

Looks like you watched the same game I did.

[BUCaholic#9]

Originally Posted by Kress

Last night it wasn't. That was the first game this season where I can actually say that I agreed with the playcalling. Gruden didn't dazzle us, I'll give you that, but he didn't do anything that made me bash my head against the wall, either.

I thought the play calling was pretty good last night as well. It is not Gruden's fault that the players can not catch the football, hold on to the football or make Gradkowski throw the football to the right spot. If the Bucs Offense does not make so many mistakes that game could have easily been 27-10 Bucs. The game was there for the taking, just as it has been a number of times this season and the "PLAYERS" committed mistakes and could not get it done.

[GradyFox]

After the execution last night I am shocked Gruden just doesn't quit, this has got to be killing the guy. I really don't see the need to fire him, but the coach is always the one to get the blame when things go bad, so it is expected. I would rather see him stay, I don't feel his playcalling is that bad, when you think about playcalling, on passes more than one man goes out in a route, the QB has to choose the open man. And by the way, 3rd and 1 we ran last night and failed to get it, I suppose we should have passed now? Even when the cynics get what they want, they complain. We weren't that good last year, more lucky than anything and we added more rooks tis year. I will be honest though, I had an 80's flashback last night, this team really resembles a lot of our worst teams in franchise history. But a very green team with a tough schedule equals a lot of pains like last night, ok I am rambling now, I agree with keeping Gruden here.

[BrianKelly25]

Wow. That is just too long of an explanation to keep him.

I'll take the lazy side. I won't bother to read your post...and if the Bucs take the lazy side, they just won't feel like looking for a replacement. That should keep'em here.

[RRodkey]

Why Gruden should stay our coach:

<crickets>
<tumbleweeds blowing>

[Pewterslimsme]

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

Very good. Three sentences, thats one over the limit. I hope that didn't hurt your brain.

Originally Posted by BucFanFrom1976

Thanks

Sometimes you guys make this **** too easy.

His evaluation of talent has to be questioned certainly how he use's his available talent.This garbage of completely ignoreing the running game to further his own ego thru a young qb that reminds him of himself has gone on quite long enough.The only reason I would like to see the owners clean house is because a coach that sees the value of a true prototype qb in Simms would most definitly retain him as qb.If Jon gets another year Chris is down the road.

Remember during preseason when Gruden was playing his first teamers 2 maybe 3 series every pre season game even though they couldn't get a first down much less a touchdown. Other teams were playing their starters well onto the 3rd Quarter some playing the whole game. Trouble was brewing. This is called arrogance, our team was never ready to play in pre season and it's still not ready to play. Granted we have many personell problems, but coaching, IMO trumps 'em all.

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by Pewterslimsme

Sometimes you guys make this **** too easy.

The one word (Thanks) response was to a compliment. Not a comment on the content of a response. Are you really that mentally challenged that you cant tell the difference.

[BucFanFrom1976]

Originally Posted by RRodkey

Why Gruden should stay our coach:

<crickets>
<tumbleweeds blowing>

See post #10.