Our need is undertackle, unfortunately...

[JamesWilder32]

This draft is not very strong at that position and the best player available, Marcus Thomas, is not a high-character guy... That being said if he is there at the beginning of round 3 he is too good to not take a chance on.

Considering the most important position on our defense is probably UT (RDE, WLB, MLB and SS being extremely important as well) these are guys that might be able to be a nice choice at UT for us.

DT Marcus Thomas-By far the best UT in the draft, probably one of the biggest question marks in the character department as well... has he learned his lesson? If so, and he's available at the top of the 3rd, he could be a future star.

DT Brandon Mebane Cal-quick penetrating DT with good play speed but only decent timed speed, undersized but not overly productive

DT Antonio Johnson Ole Miss-very athletic smallish DT that didn't put up good numbers at all in school, if we still had Marinelli to coach the guy up, I wouldn't mind, perhaps too much of a project.

DT Turk McBride Tenn-not a great pass rusher but has never played one position, very undersized for the middle at 275 but he has a ton of potential

DT Kareem Brown Miami-productive senior campaign, good pass rusher but might be a bit too big to play UT for us at 6'5 315. Good physical ability.

DE/DT Ray McDonald Florida-Not overly productive and smallish but he is very quick on the inside and has good potential because of his quickness

DT Jay Alford Penn St.-very productive smallish DT.

DT Tank Tyler NC State-probably not what we want at this position, good abilithy but larger and takes a lot of plays off.

DE/DT Baraka Atkins Miami-played mostly DE at Miami but would fit best on our D as an UT, takes a few too many plays off and is undersized even by our standards

DE/DT Adam Carriker Nebraska-a physical stud (6'6 295) that played both DE and DT at Nebraska, has good timed speed and is quick and very strong with a tremendous motor. Big question with him is, is he too tall to play inside and protect his legs?

Guys that might be excellent UT candidates if they can make the switch from DE to DT...

DE Jamaal Anderson Arkansas- I love this guy, as both a DE and UT candidate. Won't be around the 2nd time we pick but if we end up trading down (CJ is gone) I would love to add this guy... Anderson at 6'6 280 reminds me physically of Marcus Jones but has better speed. I'm not sure if he has ever played DT but if he could make the switch he could end up being the player Jones was supposed to be.

DE Victor Abiamiri Notre Dame - Good speed and quickness for DE, plays stout against the run at DE, and would probably be a dynamic penettator at UT but would likely have to add more weight to his 270 lb frame. Would be a big transition but would also make a nice DE on either side of our defense.

DE LaMarr Woodley Michigan- Only 6'2 274 but is very solid and stoutly built. Don't forget, Sapp was 6'2 278 when he came to us from the U... Woodley hsa very good speed and quickness for a DE and was extremely productive this past season. His switch would be a big transition for him (b ecause I don't know if he has ever played DT) but I think he has the strength and speed and motor to be an impact player in the inside. Not fast enough to be a starter at RDE for us but could play LDE for us.


Like I said, not great candidates to take over the UT position for us (probably our greatest need) but perhaps one of the guys at the top really takes the enxt step or one of the latter guys can make the transition.

[Alpha Alpha 408]

I agree in the sense that it is definately a need. What I don't agree with are the kids whining about, "we need another Sapp". Warren Sapp was a rare talent. Guys like him (in his prime) don't come along every year or two.

Our defense needs to get younger, across the board. Our defense is predicated on our front four getting pressure on the QB and NOT exposing our CB's to man coverage all that often. A pass rushing/run stuffing DT would be a great start but to expect a Sapp is not being very realistic.

(I know YOU aren't saying it but I've seen many others who have been)

[JamesWilder32]

I'm not saying it, but our defense definitely needs to find a guy that can apply pressure from the UT spot... I really wanted Tommie Harris the year Clayton was drafted (between Harris and S Jackson, unfortunately we got Clayton) and Harris would have been the perfect player to be our UT. Now we have to hope that we can find somebody to get some penetration up the middle so RBs don't continue to use our facemasks to clean the dirt out from their cleats.

[OnTheGrind]

A. We dont need a UT
B. Okoye is the best, not that bum Marcus Thomas.

[Q-man]

Originally Posted by OnTheGrind

A. We dont need a UT
B. Okoye is the best, not that bum Marcus Thomas.

Read it again. He is not talking about first round.
Okoye is going in first round.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by OnTheGrind

A. We dont need a UT
B. Okoye is the best, not that bum Marcus Thomas.

We do't need an UT???? Are you serious? Did you watch any of our games this season? Did you notice that we only had 25 QBs sacks this season with precious few coming from the interior.

I'm sorry, but I actually know what makes this defense work and UT is perhaps the most important position and all we have at that position is Ellis Wyms, a 6th year player that has been more injury prone than effective. Look at the difference Tommie Harris made with the Bears, when he was healthy they were the best defense in the league, now that he is hurt the Bears defense is merely above average. Pressure from the interior line is what makes this defense work, even before Simeon Rice came on the scene the Bucs were annually among the best BECAUSE of the pressure up front, most notably from Warren Sapp.

As far as Okoye being the best, he is an excellent NT, not a penetrating, havoc-creating UT... He doesn't fit the prototype of what makes a great UT.

I agree, Marcus Thomas is a bum, he has made stupid decison after stupid decision but as far as UTs go, physically he is the best prospect. His speed and quickness off the snap are unparalled by the other DT's in the draft plus he has produced well in the best conference in the nation.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by Q-man

Read it again. He is not talking about first round.
Okoye is going in first round.

Yes, this is assuming we come away with something extra special (CJ) in the first, what then do we come back with with our 2nds and 3rd?

Though I did mention if we moved down picking up DE Jamaal Anderson of Ark... This guy has exceptional ability (Peppers-like size and quickness) and really brings it.

[OnTheGrind]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

We do't need an UT???? Are you serious? Did you watch any of our games this season? Did you notice that we only had 25 QBs sacks this season with precious few coming from the interior.

I'm sorry, but I actually know what makes this defense work and UT is perhaps the most important position and all we have at that position is Ellis Wyms, a 6th year player that has been more injury prone than effective. Look at the difference Tommie Harris made with the Bears, when he was healthy they were the best defense in the league, now that he is hurt the Bears defense is merely above average. Pressure from the interior line is what makes this defense work, even before Simeon Rice came on the scene the Bucs were annually among the best BECAUSE of the pressure up front, most notably from Warren Sapp.

As far as Okoye being the best, he is an excellent NT, not a penetrating, havoc-creating UT... He doesn't fit the prototype of what makes a great UT.

I agree, Marcus Thomas is a bum, he has made stupid decison after stupid decision but as far as UTs go, physically he is the best prospect. His speed and quickness off the snap are unparalled by the other DT's in the draft plus he has produced well in the best conference in the nation.

Yes I watched all the games. That means I watched Ellis Wyms rack up 4 sacks in his last 3 full games before getting injured. He's gonna put up 10-12 sacks next year.

And Okoye is an UT, don't get it twisted.

[OnTheGrind]

Originally Posted by Q-man

Read it again. He is not talking about first round.
Okoye is going in first round.

Read it again, this time with a pair of glasses on. He called Marcus Thomas "by far the best UT in the draft".

[Naptyme]

As everyone knows I am a big fan of Marcus because of his ability to consistently beat double teams and put pressure up the middle.

One person I did not see listed that could be a steal in the later rounds is Justin Harrell. He was a great DT at Tennessee and would probably be one of the top prospects at his position had it not been for the torn bicep. The game against Florida he showed tremendous heart and was getting nice penetration even with the torn bicep.

[no1bucsfan29]

We have a decent UT. Sadly Gruden is forcing him to play NT right now. Slide Hovan to UT, where he belongs, and bring is some serious beef for the NT spot.

[barberandbrooks]

marcus thomas is easily the best ut in the draft

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by OnTheGrind

Yes I watched all the games. That means I watched Ellis Wyms rack up 4 sacks in his last 3 full games before getting injured. He's gonna put up 10-12 sacks next year.

And Okoye is an UT, don't get it twisted.

I agree, when Wyms is healthy he is pretty good, but even somebody with the blinders on can see that Wyms is rarely healthy and a player that isn't healthy and can't play can't help a team. I also saw those sacks but what I didn't see was him consistently getting penetration and pressure but merely him making a random flash play after being quiet for the majority of the game.

Considering Wyms has only played in all 16 games just once in his 6 year career, has a grand total of 14.5 sacks in his career and will be 28 when the season opens, he hardly seems like a likely choice to be a long-term answer at that position. I'll give it to Wyms, I like him better than McFarland and I was hoping Booger would get cut in TC but somehow the front office got a 2nd round pick out of the Colts for him (one of the teams all-time great rip-offs, getting a 2nd for a guy that had little value).

Fine, Okoye is an UT, in the pros, however, he projects to either a 2-gap DT or a NT in either the 3-4 or a 1-gap 4-3. UT's need exceptional quickness to excel at that position, Okoye has good range and quickness but is far from being exceptional in that area.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by no1bucsfan29

We have a decent UT. Sadly Gruden is forcing him to play NT right now. Slide Hovan to UT, where he belongs, and bring is some serious beef for the NT spot.

Hovan is a nice player, decent quickness, good strength, excellent motor, however, he played UT for Minnesota back in the day when they ran the same D as we did and he was not a big producer, his is not exceptionally quick and his pass rush moves are limited. I like Hovan... right where he is... He too can hardly be considered a long-term answer for us at either position.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by Naptyme

As everyone knows I am a big fan of Marcus because of his ability to consistently beat double teams and put pressure up the middle.

One person I did not see listed that could be a steal in the later rounds is Justin Harrell. He was a great DT at Tennessee and would probably be one of the top prospects at his position had it not been for the torn bicep. The game against Florida he showed tremendous heart and was getting nice penetration even with the torn bicep.

I thought about Harrell but his durability concerns (used to be and might still be a big factor in the Buc front office) and lack of big-time production made me rethink his value. He has great heart, a good motor, but wasn't productive enough to merit taking him in the top 3 rounds where another team (Lions have a history of taking oft-injured players) will likely take him.

[no1bucsfan29]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

Hovan is a nice player, decent quickness, good strength, excellent motor, however, he played UT for Minnesota back in the day when they ran the same D as we did and he was not a big producer, his is not exceptionally quick and his pass rush moves are limited. I like Hovan... right where he is... He too can hardly be considered a long-term answer for us at either position.

You worry to much about the actual sack number. I want a guy at UT that can put pressure on the qb, make him uncomfortable, rush him, make him leave the pocket, force him to make bad throws. I would rather have a UT that can force 2 int's a game, than 1 that will get 2 sacks a game. One thing everyone will have to admit about hovan, is when he is in the UT position, he creates pressure on the QB, he is always in his face.

[TheDisciple]

Hovan and Wyms are fine.

The problem was that we lost Rod Marinelli. You can't honestly tell me that his loss wasn't the reason we posted our worst sack total since 1994.

[no1bucsfan29]

Originally Posted by TheDisciple

Hovan and Wyms are fine.

The problem was that we lost Rod Marinelli. You can't honestly tell me that his loss wasn't the reason we posted our worst sack total since 1994.

It was definitely a huge part of the reason. The other was the fact that we had no real UT for the whole season, rotating 3-4 guys in and out, and Rice/spires showed their age.

[DeadEagle]

I would seriously hope we thoroughly investigate Marcus Thomas. There is no dounting his on field ability. The guy gets it done, and is a bonafide first round talent. If this off-field baggage of his turns out to be yesterdays' news, and getting thrown off a team could have set his head straight, then I'd like to see him given a shot. It is possible that he hasn't gotten his head straight and matured....... maybe he doesn't have that passion to play at the next level..... in which case, we move on. At least give

As far as Wyms and Hovan, I'm not terribly impressed with either. Wyms, if he could stay healthy, would be adequate in a DT rotation. This injury thing gets real old, real fast. Hovan..... I admire his motor and strength, but he just doesn't have the interior (phone booth) agility and moves to create consistent havoc.

By the end of the 2008 draft, I'd like for us to have addressed all 4 DL positions, through the draft first, and free agency second.

[DaMayan]

I disagree that this is a weak UT class.
Ok there is no real 1st rounder but Mebane, Brown, Oflord and Thomas are all pretty good prospects and will give you good value in the 2nd/3rd/4th.
I actually think this is a pretty good DT class, there are 3 good runstuffers in going in the first: Okoye, Branch and Tyler (&maybe Pittcock)

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by DaMayan

I disagree that this is a weak UT class.
Ok there is no real 1st rounder but Mebane, Brown, Oflord and Thomas are all pretty good prospects and will give you good value in the 2nd/3rd/4th.
I actually think this is a pretty good DT class, there are 3 good runstuffers in going in the first: Okoye, Branch and Tyler (&maybe Pittcock)

All 3 of those guys you mentioned are more less better NT types than UTs, there is no true UT that should be taken in the 1st... No Tommie Harris, Sapp...etc

The funny thing is is that most of the better UTs have been taken either late or not at all in the draft... John Randle wasn't drafted, Rod Coleman, was he drafted? where was La'Roi Glover drafted? Ellis Wyms might be good if he weren't hurt ALL THE TIME! A lot of those guys were transitioned to UT to take advantage of their quickness because they weren't tall or fast enough for DE... Perhaps somebody drafted later will develop.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by TheDisciple

Hovan and Wyms are fine.

The problem was that we lost Rod Marinelli. You can't honestly tell me that his loss wasn't the reason we posted our worst sack total since 1994.

Seems to me that even WITH Marinelli that we didn't have much pressure from our interior DL in 05. We had a few sackless games and our UT (Booger) was probably our biggest weakness going into 06.

[CrAsH_oVeRdRiVe]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

Fine, Okoye is an UT, in the pros, however, he projects to either a 2-gap DT or a NT in either the 3-4 or a 1-gap 4-3. UT's need exceptional quickness to excel at that position, Okoye has good range and quickness but is far from being exceptional in that area.

Actually Okoye has exceptional quickness. You don't rack up 8 sacks and 15 tfl not having quickness. Okoye's problem is consistantacy. Certain days he looks like a world beater, and others he looks average. But what do you want from a 19 year old?