My remaining board going into day 2

[JamesWilder32]

S John Wendling, Josh Gattis

CB David Irons, Tanard Jackson (also a S), Michael Coe, Fred Bennett, Kenny Scott, John Talley, Marcus Hamilton, Corey Graham

DE Brian Robison, Jay Moore, Jacob Ford, Justin Hickman ,Antwan Applewhite

UT Baraka Atkins, Marcus Thomas, CJ Ah-You, Ryan McBean, Greg Peterson, Antonio Johnson, Joe Cohen, Xzsavie Jackson, Joe Cohen

NT Walter Thomas

LB Juwan Simpson, Antwan Barnes, Rory Johnson, Earl Everett, Rufus Alexander, Brandon Siler, Chad Nkang, HB Blades, Tony Taylor, Tim Shaw, Stephen Nicholas, Dallas Sartz, Nate Harris, Zak DeOssie (also LS)

P Dan Sepulveda, Adam Podlesh

K Mason Crosby, Medlock

WR Brandon Myles, Andrae Allison, David Clowney, Courtney Taylor, Legadu Naanee, Jordan Kent, Matt Trannon, Chansi Stuckey, Steve Breaston

RB Darius Walker, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, DeShawn Wynn, Jackie Battle, Jon Cornish, Thomas Clayton

FB Nate Ilaoa, Cory Anderson, Jason Snelling

OT Doug Free, Alan Barbre

OG Manuel Ramirez, Mansfield Wrotto, Tuala Esera

OC Kyle Young, Josh Beekman

QB Jared Zabransky, Paul Thompson (also WR), Zac Taylor

TE Ben Patrick, Jonny Harline, Braden Jones

[joe86buc]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

S John Wendling, Josh Gattis

CB David Irons, Tanard Jackson (also a S), Michael Coe, Fred Bennett, Kenny Scott, John Talley, Marcus Hamilton, Corey Graham

DE Brian Robison, Jay Moore, Jacob Ford, Justin Hickman ,Antwan Applewhite

UT Baraka Atkins, Marcus Thomas, CJ Ah-You, Ryan McBean, Greg Peterson, Antonio Johnson, Joe Cohen, Xzsavie Jackson, Joe Cohen

NT Walter Thomas

LB Juwan Simpson, Antwan Barnes, Rory Johnson, Earl Everett, Rufus Alexander, Brandon Siler, Chad Nkang, HB Blades, Tony Taylor, Tim Shaw, Stephen Nicholas, Dallas Sartz, Nate Harris, Zak DeOssie (also LS)

P Dan Sepulveda, Adam Podlesh

K Mason Crosby, Medlock

WR Brandon Myles, Andrae Allison, David Clowney, Courtney Taylor, Legadu Naanee, Jordan Kent, Matt Trannon, Chansi Stuckey, Steve Breaston

RB Darius Walker, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, DeShawn Wynn, Jackie Battle, Jon Cornish, Thomas Clayton

FB Nate Ilaoa, Cory Anderson, Jason Snelling

OT Doug Free, Alan Barbre

OG Manuel Ramirez, Mansfield Wrotto, Tuala Esera

OC Kyle Young, Josh Beekman

QB Jared Zabransky, Paul Thompson (also WR), Zac Taylor

TE Ben Patrick, Jonny Harline, Braden Jones

So you listed about 40 players here. I would be more interested in your opinion about who we should take with the 3rd pick in the 4th round.

[Monty'sCircus]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

S John Wendling, Josh Gattis

CB David Irons, Tanard Jackson (also a S), Michael Coe, Fred Bennett, Kenny Scott, John Talley, Marcus Hamilton, Corey Graham

DE Brian Robison, Jay Moore, Jacob Ford, Justin Hickman ,Antwan Applewhite

UT Baraka Atkins, Marcus Thomas, CJ Ah-You, Ryan McBean, Greg Peterson, Antonio Johnson, Joe Cohen, Xzsavie Jackson, Joe Cohen

NT Walter Thomas

LB Juwan Simpson, Antwan Barnes, Rory Johnson, Earl Everett, Rufus Alexander, Brandon Siler, Chad Nkang, HB Blades, Tony Taylor, Tim Shaw, Stephen Nicholas, Dallas Sartz, Nate Harris, Zak DeOssie (also LS)

P Dan Sepulveda, Adam Podlesh

K Mason Crosby, Medlock

WR Brandon Myles, Andrae Allison, David Clowney, Courtney Taylor, Legadu Naanee, Jordan Kent, Matt Trannon, Chansi Stuckey, Steve Breaston

RB Darius Walker, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, DeShawn Wynn, Jackie Battle, Jon Cornish, Thomas Clayton

FB Nate Ilaoa, Cory Anderson, Jason Snelling

OT Doug Free, Alan Barbre

OG Manuel Ramirez, Mansfield Wrotto, Tuala Esera

OC Kyle Young, Josh Beekman

QB Jared Zabransky, Paul Thompson (also WR), Zac Taylor

TE Ben Patrick, Jonny Harline, Braden Jones

Bolded are the guys that I most interested in.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by joe86buc

So you listed about 40 players here. I would be more interested in your opinion about who we should take with the 3rd pick in the 4th round.

Nice observation, but of course the title was "my top remaining players"...

The guys I would like to see at the top of round 4 are

WRs Myles or Allison

RB Walker, Bush, or Pittman

OT Free (based on value, not because we need a 19th Offensive lineman), Barbre

OC Beekman

CB Irons, Jackson, Coe, Scott

S Wendling

DE Robison

DT Atkins, M. Thomas

I would be extremely happy to see any of the above players come to us here...

My top choices would be Myles, Allison, Atkins, Wendling Thomas or an RB... maybe even Crosby.

[caddyforlife]

Arent you forgetting about TROY SMITH

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by caddyforlife

Arent you forgetting about TROY SMITH

We don't need another QB!

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by caddyforlife

Arent you forgetting about TROY SMITH

No, I only included players I wanted, I'd rather have Chris Leak than Smith and I really don't want either. I project both of them to be career back-ups, the players I have listed all have a chance of someday developing into solid NFL starters.

[joe86buc]

I agree with some of your choices. That said, I would really like us to go after a Defensive Tackle. I'm just not sure if there's any dtackle out there worth that pick.

Marcus Thomas certainly is, but character issues all over the place.........

So the top guy for me maybe Baraka Atkins. But he would have to put on weight considering he has lbs 278 right now and with him and Rice and Adams coming from the edges, we would be a little "soft" against the run I guess.

Michael Bush is also intriguing.

[PantherSlayer]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

S John Wendling, Josh Gattis

CB David Irons, Tanard Jackson (also a S), Michael Coe, Fred Bennett, Kenny Scott, John Talley, Marcus Hamilton, Corey Graham

DE Brian Robison, Jay Moore, Jacob Ford, Justin Hickman ,Antwan Applewhite

UT Baraka Atkins, Marcus Thomas, CJ Ah-You, Ryan McBean, Greg Peterson, Antonio Johnson, Joe Cohen, Xzsavie Jackson, Joe Cohen

NT Walter Thomas

LB Juwan Simpson, Antwan Barnes, Rory Johnson, Earl Everett, Rufus Alexander, Brandon Siler, Chad Nkang, HB Blades, Tony Taylor, Tim Shaw, Stephen Nicholas, Dallas Sartz, Nate Harris, Zak DeOssie (also LS)

P Dan Sepulveda, Adam Podlesh

K Mason Crosby, Medlock

WR Brandon Myles, Andrae Allison, David Clowney, Courtney Taylor, Legadu Naanee, Jordan Kent, Matt Trannon, Chansi Stuckey, Steve Breaston

RB Darius Walker, Michael Bush, Antonio Pittman, DeShawn Wynn, Jackie Battle, Jon Cornish, Thomas Clayton

FB Nate Ilaoa, Cory Anderson, Jason Snelling

OT Doug Free, Alan Barbre

OG Manuel Ramirez, Mansfield Wrotto, Tuala Esera

OC Kyle Young, Josh Beekman

QB Jared Zabransky, Paul Thompson (also WR), Zac Taylor

TE Ben Patrick, Jonny Harline, Braden Jones

Wouldnt mind the bold players at all

[maryjanewatson]

Top ten guys still out there I'd like to see in Pewter (taking into account the picks we've already made):

1. Tanard Jackson, CB/S, Syracuse
2. Josh Gattis, S, Wake Forrest
3. Baraka Atkins, DT/DE, Miami
4. Jon Abbate, MLB, Wake Forrest
5. Aundrae Allison, WR, East Carolina
6. Ryan McBean, DT, Oklahoma State
7. Kyle Young, C, Fresno State
8. Doug Free, OT, N. Illinois
9. Greg Peterson, DE, N. Carolina Central
10. Kareem Brown, DT, Miami

[JamesWilder32]

I like your list with the exception of Abbate, don't think he would do well as a Mike in our scheme trying to run 30 yards downfield to cover the deep middle.

I still and have always hated Kareem Brown... talk about a guy that didn't impress... his 5.4 40 and other horrible workout numbers didn't help him much either.

[md_bucfan]

love to see gattis here

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by joe86buc

I agree with some of your choices. That said, I would really like us to go after a Defensive Tackle. I'm just not sure if there's any dtackle out there worth that pick.

Marcus Thomas certainly is, but character issues all over the place.........

So the top guy for me maybe Baraka Atkins. But he would have to put on weight considering he has lbs 278 right now and with him and Rice and Adams coming from the edges, we would be a little "soft" against the run I guess.

Michael Bush is also intriguing.

It is interesting you would say Atkins (as he is among my top 5 choices) and that he is too light... Ellis Wyms was 277 coming out of college... and Sapp.... 2-7-8

[Chas]

I think the Buccaneers may very well take Marcus Thomas with their first day two pick.

[Clayton80future]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

It is interesting you would say Atkins (as he is among my top 5 choices) and that he is too light... Ellis Wyms was 277 coming out of college... and Sapp.... 2-7-8

Things were way different back in '95. The majority of lineman, both on offense and defense, were well under 300 lbs. Nowadays, the vast majority are at least close to 300 lbs.

Didn't Sapp balloon up to 330, then down to 303 a few years after he got drafted?

[JamesWilder32]

That wouldn't upset me, to get a potential great player regardless of the guy's weakness in round 4 (in Thomas's case it is his character) is a good gamble to make. I like Atkins overcoming his problem with effort and motor more than Thomas overcoming his laziness and character though... Plus Atkins can be a DE/UT swing guy... But Thomas wouldn't make me upset.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by Clayton80future

Things were way different back in '95. The majority of lineman, both on offense and defense, were well under 300 lbs. Nowadays, the vast majority are at least close to 300 lbs.

Didn't Sapp balloon up to 330, then down to 303 a few years after he got drafted?

All undertackles weigh at or less than 300... Wyms, Tommie Harris, Rod Coleman... John Randle... Sapp (did)...but the thing is is that 278 is not a bad place to start, the guy can run and has good agility... he ran a 4.69 which is Tommie Harris/Warren Sapp type speed. He would be great for us.

[joe86buc]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

It is interesting you would say Atkins (as he is among my top 5 choices) and that he is too light... Ellis Wyms was 277 coming out of college... and Sapp.... 2-7-8

Yeah, but they both didn't play at that weight, did they?

I said he would have to gain a little weight, which Wyms and Sapp did.

[JamesWilder32]

of course they played at that weight, Sapp started as a rookie, Wyms played as a rookie, Rod Coleman's played his entire career well below 300 and John Randle played his entire career at around 280... The Colts had 3 guys on their starting DL that weighed 274 or less and won a superbowl.... It is about speed up front with us, not bulk.

[Clayton80future]

Weight doesn't bother me too much, but yes I would like Atkins to weight around 290 for better success.



A player I would like to see us draft in John Talley out of Duke. You definitely cannot ignore his production. I think he would be a nice selection in the 5th round.

[JamesWilder32]

I would love to see Talley in the 5th or 7th, I believe he will last into the 7th but somebody will take him due to his production.

[Acacius]

How about Le'Ron McClain? Not in the 4th, of course, but I wouldn't object too him later on.

[joe86buc]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

of course they played at that weight, Sapp started as a rookie, Wyms played as a rookie, Rod Coleman's played his entire career well below 300 and John Randle played his entire career at around 280... The Colts had 3 guys on their starting DL that weighed 274 or less and won a superbowl.... It is about speed up front with us, not bulk.

But as we already found out, Wyms and Sapp gained weight and they got better because of it.

For the record Wyms made an amazing number of 3 tackles as a rookie.

And the colts were dead last in rushing defense last year, you may not realize this, but if they would not have guys like Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne they hadn't even made it to the playoffs. Just because of two good defensive games against the power house offenses that Kansas City and Baltimore possess there defense is still not one of the best out there.

I didn't say he can't play at the weight he has right now, just that we would have a bad rushing defense with him (at his current weight), Simeon and Gaines in there.

Learn to read properly.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by joe86buc

But as we already found out, Wyms and Sapp gained weight and they got better because of it.

For the record Wyms made an amazing number of 3 tackles as a rookie.

And the colts were dead last in rushing defense last year, you may not realize this, but if they would not have guys like Peyton Manning or Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne they hadn't even made it to the playoffs. Just because of two good defensive games against the power house offenses that Kansas City and Baltimore possess there defense is still not one of the best out there.

I didn't say he can't play at the weight he has right now, just that we would have a bad rushing defense with him (at his current weight), Simeon and Gaines in there.

Learn to read properly.

Learn to read properly? You're an idiot... Did you read that properly? Please prove that Sapp and Wyms improved BECAUSE they gained weight... They improved in large part because they became better players due to learning their responsibilities and adjusting to the speed of the game. Show me one place where anybody that isn't an idiot (rules you out) says those two guys improved because they gained weight.

Speaking of reading properly, what about Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris and John Randle who played their entire careers under 300? Did John Randle and Coleman become better players BECAUSE they gained weight? Considering neither one of them was ever very big just imagine how good they could have been if they had packed on a few extra pounds (which would have likely robbed them of some of their fantastic speed and quickness) they would have been even better... How about LaRoi Glover, he was 285 the year he had 17 sacks... just imagine if he had gained 15 lbs before that season and how great he would have been... Give me a break, your candy store analysis of what makes an undertackle great in the cover-2 shows that you have a severe lack of knowledge mixed with a disgraceful amount of know-it-all which just makes you look like a dunce.

[JamesWilder32]

Bush is gone... no biggie, I prefer Walker and Pitmann over him anyways.

Hopefully we will land Brandon Myles or Andrae Allison here.

[joe86buc]

Originally Posted by JamesWilder32

Learn to read properly? You're an idiot... Did you read that properly? Please prove that Sapp and Wyms improved BECAUSE they gained weight... They improved in large part because they became better players due to learning their responsibilities and adjusting to the speed of the game. Show me one place where anybody that isn't an idiot (rules you out) says those two guys improved because they gained weight.

Speaking of reading properly, what about Rod Coleman, Tommie Harris and John Randle who played their entire careers under 300? Did John Randle and Coleman become better players BECAUSE they gained weight? Considering neither one of them was ever very big just imagine how good they could have been if they had packed on a few extra pounds (which would have likely robbed them of some of their fantastic speed and quickness) they would have been even better... How about LaRoi Glover, he was 285 the year he had 17 sacks... just imagine if he had gained 15 lbs before that season and how great he would have been... Give me a break, your candy store analysis of what makes an undertackle great in the cover-2 shows that you have a severe lack of knowledge mixed with a disgraceful amount of know-it-all which just makes you look like a dunce.

I like people who every time when there statements are challenged and questioned start to insult other people. That tells me everything I need to know about you.

When I said that you should read my post properly I meant that you are writing about the wrong things here. I said him playing at his current weight would be bad for run support. I did never ever say he can not rush the passer at his current weight. Therefore you stating that John Randle or Rod Coleman got and still get a lot of sacks should just not be part of this conversation.

And to put an emphasis on my statement I gave you the fact that the colts defense was dead last in rushing defense last year.

And just for your information playing under 300 (which normally means playing between 290 and 300) is different than playing at 278.

And you want me to prove that they got better because they got heavier. You can't prove that for sure and you know that, but you can't also prove for sure, that they didn't get better because they gained weight.

[JamesWilder32]

and we trade out, no biggie still a lot of good player available, there goes Robison though.

[JamesWilder32]

Originally Posted by joe86buc

I like people who every time when there statements are challenged and questioned start to insult other people. That tells me everything I need to know about you.

When I said that you should read my post properly I meant that you are writing about the wrong things here. I said him playing at his current weight would be bad for run support. I did never ever say he can not rush the passer at his current weight. Therefore you stating that John Randle or Rod Coleman got and still get a lot of sacks should just not be part of this conversation.

And to put an emphasis on my statement I gave you the fact that the colts defense was dead last in rushing defense last year.

And just for your information playing under 300 (which normally means playing between 290 and 300) is different than playing at 278.

And you want me to prove that they got better because they got heavier. You can't prove that for sure and you know that, but you can't also prove for sure, that they didn't get better because they gained weight.

Blah blah blah blah, you started off by trying to insult me, telling somebody to learn to read properly is an insult, I know, I am a teacher and kids insult other kids all the time with the same insult... I know what it is. If you don't want to be insulted then keep your insults to yourself and shut the hell up.

[JamesWilder32]

So if John Randle played his entire career at or around 280 and Rod Coleman was not much bigger, what does that say about them? They would have been hall of famers if they played at closer to 300? In a one-gap system speed is at a premium and excess weight is not valued over speed. 280 lbs at UT is fine if the guy has great speed, technique and plays with proper leverage.

this is a bit random but how do u guys feel about the corner outta fresno