Please tell me I'm wrong...... please!

[Patrick McIrish]

From what I see, Chuck is paying 3 of our QB's just this year alone:

Plummer - 5.3 million.
Garcia - 5 million, his 2 year deal with incentives could be worth 14.5 million.
Simms - 5 million, 3 million signing bonus. With incentives his 2 year deal could also be worth over 14.5 million.


Yes I realize Plummer may not report but we didn't know it at the time, our plan was really to pay 3 different QB's starter type money? And make no mistake, we might still be on the hook for all this if Plummer reports. Unreal. Please tell me I'm wrong and the figures are off, they could be as I just goggled this. This can't be right, even King Jon and his QB fetish he wouldn't do this. Right?

[AntCam]

Your right!

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by AntCam

Your right!

[BucFanFromATL]

Originally Posted by AntCam

Your right!

You mean You're...

And yes Pat... You're right again.
The only defense I have to offer for Bruce Allen is the structure of the contract allows room for contract movement without penalties to the Cap. The contracts are trade friendly and if they were to release Garcia or Simms, there would not be a huge penalty...

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by BucFanFromATL

The only defense I have to offer for Bruce Allen is the structure of the contract allows room for contract movement without penalties to the Cap. The contracts are trade friendly and if they were to release Garcia or Simms, there would not be a huge penalty...

:takes noose off momentarily:


Well that's a start at least. I mean Plummer may not report, but already it seems like his hard-lined stance is easing. If he reports we are in big trouble IMO, his base salary is 5.3 million if he comes, regardless if he ever even plays one down. So we got Garcia, a soon to be 40 year old florist that probably spends more time matching drapes in his new digs than studying the playbook. We got Simms who is just coming off surgery to remove a spleen, even Buc sources admit his throwing motion is compromised by the inujury. I'm not the smartest man in the world, Chuck is, but seems like we'd get that info before we inked a new deal for him, no? Hell he went 0-3 and looked lost out there last season before he got hurt!!? That leaves Plummer, only 34, a kid by King Jon's standards, but here is a guy that lost his starting job last year!! His QB rating dipped horribbly, plummeted is more like it. He went from 84.5 and 90.2 all the way down to 68.8!!! Hell that's Gradkowski area code and he was just a rookie when he was thrown in the fire.

What the hell am I missing here!!

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by BucFanFromATL

The only defense I have to offer for Bruce Allen is the structure of the contract allows room for contract movement without penalties to the Cap. The contracts are trade friendly and if they were to release Garcia or Simms, there would not be a huge penalty...

Just so I am understanding this correctly, you saying we can outright release Garcia or Simms and not be on the hook for anything?

[LafayetteSaint]

Never fear. You have as much wrapped in QBs as we do in RBs. You guys just need to find a way to play 2-3 at one time

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by LafayetteSaint

Never fear. You have as much wrapped in QBs as we do in RBs. You guys just need to find a way to play 2-3 at one time

Boy even the Saint fans get a kick out of this, LOL, can't blame them. I can't wait until we get either McKay or Dungy back, both would be the nuts! That would stop this sort of abuse from the other teams.

[Patrick McIrish]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4354544


Plummer's job security takes another big hit


If coach Mike Shanahan does not trust his quarterback, why should anybody else in Denver believe in Jake Plummer?

Almost by accident, the Broncos beat Kansas City 9-6.

But Plummer knows the score.

He is a dead quarterback walking.

The Broncos won. But anyone who saw Plummer in the locker room felt the discomfort of standing in the presence of a beaten man.

What to take from this game? It was a vote of no-confidence in Plummer.

Shanahan bit his tongue as he described the restraining orders placed on Plummer after the quarterback bungled the season opener in St. Louis.

This game plan was more conservative than Ann Coulter.

"I thought we dialed it back a little bit. We put a little more pressure on our defense," said Shanahan, who admitted after five turnovers against the Rams last week he was not about to let Plummer throw the same junk around his own backyard Sunday.

Shanahan, whose reputation was built on being an offensive mastermind, did not dial it down for Brian Griese or Gus Frerotte the way the coach is tugging on Plummer's leash.

Now warming up in the bullpen, No. 6, rookie Jay Cutler.

If Plummer had flipped a pitchout to a tailback any more often on third down, the Broncos could have been charged with plagiarizing the playbook of Lombardi's Packers, circa 1966.

What is fair to Plummer has nothing to do with what is right for the Broncos.

Hey, I genuinely feel sorry for the guy. But the last thing a leader of an NFL team should be is an object of pity.

Plummer has done some good work for the team, as his 33 career victories with the Broncos attest. But the feistiness that made Jake the Snake has been exterminated.

In the place where defiance once burned in the Snake's eyes, there is only the vacant look of a guy stuck in a dead-end job.

At age 54, Shanahan remains a gambler at heart, although the coach now seems more content merely to win rather than also prove how brilliant he is in the process.

Giving Cutler a shot to play this season is not as big a risk as sticking with a rattled 31-year-old quarterback in danger of tripping every time he walks to the line of scrimmage, because Plummer is constantly looking over his shoulder.

One Denver touchdown in two games? Remember when the Broncos could score in a John Elway minute?

"We need to feel the heat," wide receiver Javon Walker said, "because we're not performing to the best of our ability and the defense is keeping us in this game."

Go ahead and write the offense stinks, said Rod Smith, seething with anger.

But the twin Bells of different mothers, Tatum and Mike, have carried their weight as tailbacks, averaging better than 5 yards on 54 carries. Walker, the new acquisition at receiver, salivates with anticipation under the same pressure that makes other players sweat. Center Tom Nalen and his fellow big uglies still block out everything except the sun.

No, the Denver offense does not stink. The quarterback stinks.

Even his longest completion against the Chiefs, a 24-yard pass to Walker that set up the winning field goal in overtime by Jason Elam, failed to impress Plummer.

"Half you guys might be able to make that throw," Plummer cheerfully told a motley crew of reporters. "I just threw it up in the air and let him come down with it. There wasn't any timing on it; there was no leaning in; nothing pretty about it. I was just throwing it up there and making sure I gave him a chance to come down with the ball."

The most beautiful play Denver produced all day could have been instigated by pencil- necked geeks like me?

"Maybe not half you guys. More like a third," said Plummer, laughing. "Or maybe a fifth."

Since when did being quarterback of the Broncos mean getting out of the way? If he is not on the field to make plays, then why is Plummer standing in the huddle at all?

Despite a Denver locker room full of quality individuals, how long can Shanahan patch cracks in the team psyche when the offense is a burden?

When all the Broncos ask the quarterback to do is paint by numbers and connect the dots, who needs an NFL veteran when any talented rookie could do this elementary stuff?

The answers to all those tough questions are the same.

This team is being prepared for a change at quarterback.

All that remains is for Shana- han to determine the right time to tap Cutler on the shoulder and work out the details of the transfer in power.

Wait too long and this season will be as lost as the look in Plummer's eyes.

This somehow has to be the fault of Rich McKay.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by TheChronic

This somehow has to be the fault of Rich McKay.

Of course, that's a given. Here's more on our new man:


http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/...ged-road-rage/


Jake Plummer cited for alleged road rage

From the Denver Post-

Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer has been issued a summons by the Englewood police in connection with a purported “road-rage-type incident” last month, investigator John Hoehler said Tuesday night.

Police were sent to East Hampden Avenue and Downing Street on April 20 after a report of a hit-and-run accident. The victim of the incident - identified by Fox 31 News as Doug Stone - told officers he had been involved in a road rage incident with the driver of a gray Honda van.

When the van stopped at a red light, the driver got out and kicked the front of Stone’s truck. The man then got back into the Honda, put it in reverse and hit the front of Stone’s vehicle causing minor damage, then left the scene, Hoehler said.

“When he backed into my truck, he broke my license-plate frame,” Stone told Fox 31.

Stone said he saw the gray Honda cut off three other drivers before he was cut off.

“He pulled in front of me,” Stone said. “I wasn’t very polite. I did honk my horn quite a bit.”

Stone also said, “He actually kicked the front of the truck and said, ‘Stay off my tail.’ He proceeded to get back into his van, he put it in reverse and backed right into the bumper and actually pushed there for 10 seconds and then took off.”

A witness - identified by Fox 31 as Marjorie Casse - got the license-plate number of the van and reported it to police, he said.

[Patrick McIrish]

http://www.jakethemistake.com/


Why We Hate Jake


In a time of free agency, there exists little patience for players like Jake Plummer. As lifetime Bronco fans, and season ticket holders, we can no longer sit idle and watch this sorry excuse for a leader deface the Broncos uniform. We love the Broncos, but realize Plummer is a cancer. With a long-standing tradition of competitive teams and players who are seen as local heroes, the Broncos and fans deserve better.

Throwing for the same amount of touchdowns and interceptions in his career, he has been known to keep both teams in the game. Here is a man who is behind the league’s best offensive line, has two all-pro receivers, a 1,000 yard running back and still sucks!!!! Also, his insistence on treating the Denver fans like garbage leads one to think that he really should be in a Raiders uniform. Elway struggled early in his career, but he singlehandedly took teams with players like Ricky “Who?” Nattiel, Vance “Drunk” Johnson, and Clarence “Ike Turner” Kay to numerous superbowls. He never flipped the fans off at home, and was gracious at every opportunity. The national spotlight is always on the Broncos, and he consistently gives the Broncos and their fans a collective black eye. We can no longer sit back and watch him destroy what we love so much.

The time is now to bench Jake Plummer, and look to the future. Take a moment to sign the petition to bench him.

To borrow a line from Tom Jackson, “a quarterback is someone you rely on to win a game, not someone you overcome to win it.”

[tampabayfan]

Yep Plummer will never show up, Garcia is a 2 year hole filler at most (glad he is here though) and Simms will probably never be a full time starter here again. Got to remember though at the time Simms was signed, he had already turned down a contract and had a change at starting if no FA qb was signed. Allen was stuck in giving Simms the cash or risk we have no Qb for the season.I do not understand the whole Plummer thing at all. he had already said publicly that he was considering retirement. Hello that should have been a big red flag. Really the only real smart thing he did was go after Garcia in a last ditch save face kind of way. Good going Allen. Atleast we wont have Simms starting this season.

[Grand Pa Buc]

You're wrong. Simms' contract is a possible 5 million over 2 years and IF he meets the incentives.

Garcia is most likely to be the starter and collect on those incentives. Simms will be fortunate to even make the final roster.

Plummer will take a year off before deciding he wants to play out the final year of his contract. He won't count against the cap in '07.

For those of you who hate Gruden more than you love the Bucs, you are not going to enjoy much this fall. Those of us who support both will.

[NewOrleans]

Gruden is under pressure to win this year.
If these guys don't cut it, you'll be feeling it for a while most likely.

I understand Garcia, who was awesome last year but, Simms and Plummer???

[Patrick McIrish]

I don't follow all that. We signed Simms to keep from having no QB? How do you figure that? I know you for one think Grads is the better candidate, does he count? What about Rattay? We could have made an effort to keep him. Or McNown? Or even draft one like Brady Quinn or another out of the draft. I'm sorry, I just don't buy the fact there was a gun to our head that forced these clowns to sign Simms. It looks more to me like it has for years, we got our head stuck up our rectum and are extremely disorganized. This is what happens when you got no long term plan on how to succeed. Like they say, those who fail to plan can plan on failing.

And what exactly to you is great about Garcia? We going to win a ring the next two years?

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by Grand Pa Buc

You're wrong. Simms' contract is a possible 5 million over 2 years and IF he meets the incentives.

Garcia is most likely to be the starter and collect on those incentives. Simms will be fortunate to even make the final roster.

I hope for the first time in your miserable life you finally got one right. The link I brought up said 5 million this year, it could be wrong though. Besides, if Simms is going to be fortunate to even make the final roster why give him a 3 million dollar signing bonus that has already been paid out? It makes no sense.

[Buc Basil]

Originally Posted by TheChronic

This somehow has to be the fault of Rich McKay.

No... but isn't he the GM who is currently paying one mediocre QB an NFL record salary of $130 million?

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by NewOrleans

Gruden is under pressure to win this year.
If these guys don't cut it, you'll be feeling it for a while most likely.

We've been "feeling it" ever since Mr McKay left and Chuck took over. Last 4 years we won once, the other 3 years were 5-11, 7-9 and 4-12. We're used to feeling it, I'm ready to win again.

Originally Posted by NewOrleans

I understand Garcia, who was awesome last year but, Simms and Plummer???

I've got no idea, it makes no sense. Of course nothing has lately, it doesn't make sense to bring in Charley Garner and let Thomas Jones go etc..... Guess we should be used to it by now. BTW congrats on your turn-around, amazing what a new head coach can bring eh? 'Nuff said.

[tampabayfan]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

I don't follow all that. We signed Simms to keep from having no QB? How do you figure that? I know you for one think Grads is the better candidate, does he count? What about Rattay? We could have made an effort to keep him. Or McNown? Or even draft one like Brady Quinn or another out of the draft. I'm sorry, I just don't buy the fact there was a gun to our head that forced these clowns to sign Simms. It looks more to me like it has for years, we got our head stuck up our rectum and are extremely disorganized. This is what happens when you got no long term plan on how to succeed. Like they say, those who fail to plan can plan on failing.

And what exactly to you is great about Garcia? We going to win a ring the next two years?

Nothing is great about Garcia, just better then the current roster. I would hate the only qb on the roster with any experience with gruden's playbook to be Grad. Scary thought! Rattay was good as gone, McNown? You cant really think he would do anything for the team.We dont have a long term plan. Its lets save Gruden's job first and then see what we can get for a qb next year. With Grad, Simms, McNown the guys on the roster, I can see why Plummer was so attractive. I'm just looking forward to the qb position not be the reason why we are losing, even if it just for one season. What else do we have to look forward to?

[RRodkey]

Originally Posted by Buc Basil

No... but isn't he the GM who is currently paying one mediocre QB an NFL record salary of $130 million?

Right on cue.

[RRodkey]

Originally Posted by NewOrleans

Gruden is under pressure to win this year.
If these guys don't cut it, you'll be feeling it for a while most likely.

Sad, but true. This is where we're headed.

[Buc Basil]

Originally Posted by RRodkey

Right on cue.

But really... I don't see why we're sitting here whining over the possibility of paying 15 mil for 3 mediocre players when we could be paying 130 mil (the NFL's all time highest salary) for one mediocre player. Is there a reason for the whining???

[UMiamiBucFan]

You're right McIrish. The Simms and Garcia deals are identical. Both got 3 million to sign and a 2 million salary for this year. Thus they will both make 5 million this year (even though their cap hit will only be 3.5 million). Instead of developing young, quality talent, Gruden and Allen decided to bring in a mass quantity of QBs.

We are spending just as much on our QBs this year as the Colts are spending on Peyton Manning, and we won't get nearly the productivity.

The good news is that if Plummer doesn't report, his 5 million comes off our cap. Furthermore, if the Bucs go after his signing bonus, they could get a cap credit for it.

[Buc Basil]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

a purported “road-rage-type incident” last month........

Or we could be paying 130 mil for a guy involved in a purported dog fighting incident, not to mention giving venerial diseases under false names, and who smuggles weed onto airplanes in water bottles! What a deal!

[NobandwagonBUC]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Just so I am understanding this correctly, you saying we can outright release Garcia or Simms and not be on the hook for anything?

Come on Pat, you know every answer to the questions that you are asking.

By the way, who brought the bait ?

[BFT]

Originally Posted by Buc Basil

But really... I don't see why we're sitting here whining over the possibility of paying 15 mil for 3 mediocre players when we could be paying 130 mil (the NFL's all time highest salary) for one mediocre player. Is there a reason for the whining???

Because we aren't the falcons. I don't give a damn about another team's situation.

Using the "We suck, but they suck worse" mentality applauds mediocrity. I don't live with that. I live with "We suck - what the hell are we doing to change it?" motto.

Call a spade a spade.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by tampabayfan

Nothing is great about Garcia, just better then the current roster.

That may be so, but that is not all that's relevant in the NFL when you are operating under a salary cap. College? Sure, play the best guy. High School? Sure, play the best guy. It's easy. Not so when limited funds are available. I explained this the other day, the basis for moves at this level is not restricted to "this guy should be a little better than what we have, let's open the vault". That is what's brought us Stuessie, Garner, Tim Brown, Bolden and so on. What you have to do is be realistic enough to understand where your team is as far as talent. Be experienced enough to understand where the team is on a competitive level. You can't win every year, some years you bite the bullet with an eye towards the future. When you spend all this money for short-term stop gaps at key positions like this that money is gone forever. Right now though most don't recognize it we got several problems areas, hell Hovan is still STARTING, but even moreso we have a huge lack of quality depth. This game is all about injuries, about not only expecting them but preparing for them. Most fans here don't understand that, to them it's an excuse they throw out when we lose. All teams have them, some just prepare for them better. Those being teams of course that aren't bringing in 40 year old light in their cleats QB's who everyone knows is a short term fix at best and that's if he stays healthy. I would never predict one, but can you say it's going to be a huge suprise if it happens? Violent sport for a young man, much more so for these aged vets we bring in. Right Mr Garner? More to this than is the next QB going to be a little better. I know that sounds silly but that's reality, if it was that way we wouldn't need a GM at all to specialize in the cap. The only time when you can afford to think this way (short-term quick solutions) is when you got a team that is very very close to winning it all. Then you bite the bullet and bring in these aged vets if they can put you over the top. But for a 4-12 club that has an aging defense, young studs regressing all over the field, a questionable at best GM when it comes to evaluating talent, and the worst OC in the game of football than it's pointless to bring in a short-term stop gap thinking he is going to be the difference maker. What for? So we can 7-9 the next two years and have the whole team suffer rather than try to build a solid foundation and go from there?

Originally Posted by tampabayfan

We dont have a long term plan. Its lets save Gruden's job first......

Amen.

Originally Posted by tampabayfan

I'm just looking forward to the qb position not be the reason why we are losing, even if it just for one season. What else do we have to look forward to?

The QB isn't the reason we are losing, I think you know the main reason for that. What we have to look forward to is a new coach, like what happened in New Orleans when they brought in fresh meat.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by BucFanTexas

Because we aren't the falcons. I don't give a damn about another team's situation.

Using the "We suck, but they suck worse" mentality applauds mediocrity. I don't live with that. I live with "We suck - what the hell are we doing to change it?" motto.

Call a spade a spade.

Excellent post. Besides one man is already a SuperBowl winning GM here in Tampa, the guy here now has yet to win a single playoff game. No offense Basil but pretty silly to try and 2nd guess the former but blindly sign off on the latter.

[Buc Basil]

Originally Posted by BucFanTexas

Because we aren't the falcons. I don't give a damn about another team's situation.

Using the "We suck, but they suck worse" mentality applauds mediocrity. I don't live with that. I live with "We suck - what the hell are we doing to change it?" motto.

Call a spade a spade.

I'm just criticizing the fact that Rich McKay is a golden God to some people who post here, but has led his new team to deals for one more than than octuple (8 times) our entire QB roster. The QB salary on our team for next year is slightly above average for an NFL team, if Plummer doesn't show up. If he does, then the money we make from him cancels out the salary of Simms, and if he does show up we take a 5 mil cap hit. Oh dear!