The problem with Madden and the 2k series.

[Kain]

The real problem with Madden and the 2K series is we're playing a game built on a seven year old engine that was made for the PS2. If you go back and look at Madden 2000 for the PS1 and compare it to Madden 01 for the PS2 you'll really be able to see how different the two games are and it's because they're not the same game engines. They built a brand new engine for Madden 01 when they released it for the PS2 and they continue to use that same game engine year after year. The same thing can be said about the 2k series. If you compare Espn 2k5 and APF 2k8, you won't see much of a difference. They can add in new animations and new features or change things like interfaces like they did in Madden 08, but the overall game play will remain the same. And I believe all the new features they add onto a seven year old engine is why every year the loading times increase. I didn't have much of a problem when they releasing games for the PS2 and the Xbox because they using all the power those two systems could offer. When they started releasing games on the PS3 and the Xbox 360 using the same outdated engine is why we all should be upset. They're not taking advantage of what the PS3 and Xbox 360 have to offer. Basically, we're getting recycled crap from a sixth generation console.

Another example of this is the Grand Theft Auto series. All three games on the PS2 looked the same, they did add a few things with the new games, but they were basically the same game. Now, if you go look at Grand Theft Auto 4 for the PS3 and Xbox 360, you can tell just by looking at it that it's a different game with a different game engine. The game engine they're using is called the Euphoria Engine which was created by NaturalMotion. This is the engine Madden and and the 2K series should be using. There are three games that I know of that are gonna be using the Euphoria Engine, GTA 4, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed , and Indiana Jones 2007. They will probably be the three best games of 2008. If you go to youtube and search for Euphoria Engine you'll see what I'm talking about. As for Madden and the 2k series, I'm not buying another football game until I know they're using a new engine.

[kickstand]

I agree, almost all the early games for the 360 and the PS3 completely fail to use the new technology. It's the main reason why the PS3 is getting harped on from being "outperformed" by the 360. No one's figured out how to take advantage of the Cell system.

There was a discussion amongst a couple of us that if EA took the time to take a year off Madden and create a very high quality game it would improve their sales and improve their gameplay greatly. The problem is that EA is unlikely to do so since their sales skyrocket each time anyways. As long as we're stuck with the NFL license for EA, it'll continue with the same engine most likely unless they increase their work force and work hard to create a new engine.

[barberandbrooks]

i don't get why you get banned for using youtube links??..its not in the rules so i don't even think it'd be possible to get banned

[Buccs99]

have you ever checked the comments ? it's not rocket science chief. if you post a link where the comments are of people dropping f-bombs then you deserved what you get.

[Angry Buccaneer]

Not sure about the Playstation versions, but they absolutely built a new engine for the 360 from the XBOX. Why do you think Madden 06 was so drastically different if you compared the Xbox version to the 360 version?

Maybe they haven't brought forth the most innovative technology or gameplay lately, but to say they didn't develop a new engine is false. A football game is going to look like a football game.

[Pirate4Life]

Originally Posted by Kain

Another example of this is the Grand Theft Auto series. All three games on the PS2 looked the same, they did add a few things with the new games, but they were basically the same game. Now, if you go look at Grand Theft Auto 4 for the PS3 and Xbox 360, you can tell just by looking at it that it's a different game with a different game engine.

Good argument until here. Are you complaining about GTA not being improved until its release on PS3?

GTA: Vice City, and San Andreas obviously used the same engines on purpose. Hence the reason Vice City wasn't GTA IV and SA GTA: V... They didn't deserve the title. There was no "improvement" they were just releasing the same game in different clothes. Everyone knew that. It wasn't "The Next GTA" it was just a spoof from GTA: III.

However, if you're using it as an example of how they're improving with each generation of consoles...then don't mind me, and carry on.

[Cadillac Kid 22]

Originally Posted by barberandbrooks

i don't get why you get banned for using youtube links??..its not in the rules so i don't even think it'd be possible to get banned

It's the comments people write on youtube. And it is possible to get banned for it, as a few already have.

[Kain]

Originally Posted by Alxander75

Not sure about the Playstation versions, but they absolutely built a new engine for the 360 from the XBOX. Why do you think Madden 06 was so drastically different if you compared the Xbox version to the 360 version?

Maybe they haven't brought forth the most innovative technology or gameplay lately, but to say they didn't develop a new engine is false. A football game is going to look like a football game.

I can't speak for the 360, but I know for a fact the PS3 is using the same recycled engine that they created for the PS2. I also find it hard to believe they would build a new engine for the 360 and not use it for the PS3. But lets say it's true and they did build a new engine. I would be more upset over that then getting the recycled one because they're not taking advantage of what the seventh generation consoles can do. I'm not talking about using the most innovative technologies available, but they should be making games built for the 360 or PS3 and not the Xbox and PS2.

[Dr Death]

Originally Posted by Kain

I can't speak for the 360, but I know for a fact the PS3 is using the same recycled engine that they created for the PS2. I also find it hard to believe they would build a new engine for the 360 and not use it for the PS3. But lets say it's true and they did build a new engine. I would be more upset over that then getting the recycled one because they're not taking advantage of what the seventh generation consoles can do. I'm not talking about using the most innovative technologies available, but they should be making games built for the 360 or PS3 and not the Xbox and PS2.

You offer up some good critiques Kain... it's nice to read some thoughts about what is the core of the problem, instead of just That game sux!

I played the new Madden tonight with my brother on his 360... I won't be buying it. It's really difficult to properly put into words... but my disappointments are many.

Let's go back in time real quick... remember the classic Tecmo Bowl? Man, that game was cheesy compared to what's out today... but it was fun! Then in 1993 when Sega released the Joe Montana Football... his first year with the Chiefs, that game looked great... at the time... and was a lot of fun too. And I feel the last time a game was released that looked great... for its time, had great new features and was still a ton of fun, was Madden 2002.

The new game just... I don't know... it isn't any fun. And no, I didn't get pounded... we played three games... I won 17-7, lost 17-20, and won 14-10. Ten minute quarters...

But there is no WOW factor... was it last year's game that you could see the stitching on the jersey numbers? This year that is gone? Why? Yeah, it's a little, tiny, minute thing... but still... why is that gone? The game play... it really hasn't improved since Madden 2003... just my opinion, but I remember the days when we had crappy little games Gameday and how cheesy and horrible that looked and played, and then Madden 2002 came out and we were all like... WOW! I mean... Freakin' WOW!

Now it's like... is that all?

Is it the engine? Perhaps it is. I think it's just pure laziness. I knew, the minute I heard EA Sports bought the NFL exclusive rights, the game would not improve. There's no competition. Look at training camps around the country right now... what makes them so good? The competition. The fight and struggle to prove you're the best and deserve to be the one who stays with the team.

EA Sports is LONG overdue to wow us... and frankly, I doubt they can anymore. So many people have been burned by them that the trust factor is almost completely shot...

So sad... I remember back in the late 90's seeing screen shots of what Next-Gen football would look like. Too bad the let down continues year after year...

[RedTideBucs]

I once again got sucked in to buying an EA Madden game, every year I say hell no not this year lol. EA getting exclusive rights to the NFL was the worst thing that could happen to us, screw EA and screw the NLFPA for allowing them to monopolize the gaming world of NFL football. No competition=no ambition.

[BucsLJohnson34]

I played madden against my friends and I was really impressed with a few things but mostly disappointed and frustrated with some of the things such as when you throw a flag pattern towards the sideline.. a receiver refuses to catch a ball over his shoulder.. EVER.. that drives me nuts.. even if the ball isn't going to be batted down and he's got his guy beat by 10 yards.. he jumps straight up in the air to catch it.. instead of just running it down over his shoulder for the quick six..