Best offense in the NFC South?

[Numbskull]

Lets look at the big picture. Not just the WRs. Who in the NFC South has the best overall offense?

Anyway, gimmie your opinion on the matter.

Here's my take.... (Very, Very Long)

1. Saints

QB - Have a talented QB in Aaron Brooks who plays off and on at times. He's really careless with the ball, but when he focuses in he can play with the best of them. Can really zip the ball in and make accurate "thread the needle" type throws. Needs to show more maturity and leadership. Has to learn to hold onto the ball. If he improves in these two key areas he's a top 10 QB. Kind of ironic that he develops a fumbling problem after he gets his ints in check. Not confident with the backups in JT O’Sully and Bouman.

RB - Deuce is one of the best in the NFL. Top five back that can contribute anywhere asked. Not much to say that is new info; you know what you get with Deuce. IMO, the best back in the NFC. Backups aren't the best in Stecker and Lamar Smith, but they aren't too bad.

FB - Sam Gash and Mike Karney. Sam might be running out of gas and Mike is a rookie. Mike was a good run blocker at Arizona and was the first FB taken. An unproven position for the Saints offense.

WR - Deep Saints wide receiver corps. Joe Horn was nagged by injuries all last year and didn't have a great year. He shows signs of slowing down as he is getting up in age, but he still is the man in the NFC South (No disrespect to McCardell or Smith). Pathon was the Saints' most reliable WR last year next to Boo Williams. Hauled in a good number of passes and is a great man in the slot. Stallworth has alot of potential to say the least, but the guy hasn't been able to stay on field. Needs to learn how to play hurt. This is a big year for him and he knows it. He can stretch defenses big time and can take it to the house at any time. Devery Henderson, drafted in the 2nd round by the Saints, has tremendous speed to stretch defenses also. He played next to Clayton last year at LSU and had 11 TDs, one more than Clayton. He's an insurance policy in case Stallworth can't go and will also be a great threat when he can get on the field. Other WRs include Germaine Crowell who was a 1 year wonder after he got injured, kick returner Michael Lewis, singer Derrick Lewis (he sang the National Anthem before a few preseason games), and Talmon Gardner. They are definitely 4 deep here, maybe 5.

TE - Atlanta fans will have a fit when I say this, but..... Look out because soon there might be a new #1 TE in the NFC South. Boo Williams was making huge plays at the end of last year. He stretched defenses and provided solid hands in third down situations. He's was an undrafted FA out of Arkansas who has made the conversion from big college WR to TE and he's finally made it. In his last six games after Conwell went down, he caught 29 passes for 347 yards and 4 TDs. In 10 more starts, Crumpler only had 3 more catches. I agree, Crumpler no doubt is #1 in the NFC South right now and no doubt suffered from Vick being gone, but don't be surprised if Boo catches him either this year or next. Conwell is great depth as he can catch, block and brings great leadership to the field. Lamant Hall is a good situational blocking TE.

OLine - Just solid top to bottom. Gandy is a finesse LT, but he does a pretty good job holding his own. Holland was a steal in the 4th round last year and is a great run blocker. Bentley will move to his natural position at center with Fontenot gone. Kendyl Jacox is an underrated player at the other guard position. Victor Riley at the RT position has been off the chain. Just a superb player as a Saint. Solid depth with Jamar Nesbit, Jon Stinchcomb, and Spencer Folau as backups. Have already gelled as a unit.

Closing Thought - Saints are solid at every position and at most positions have solid depth. They will run an even more wide open offense this year with the arrival of Devery Henderson and departure of Terrelle Smith. Look for alot more 3-4 WR sets. Could be one of the most explosive teams at offense this year. The key to the puzzle is consistency in Aaron Brooks and the wide receivers.

2. Buccaneers

QB - Brad Johnson to be honest did not have a great season last year. Alot of that can be attributed to a god awful OLine and very little runningback support. He's definately an underrated player in this league. Dangerfield syndrom (ie 'no respect'). He's a rock who can provide solid leadership and a steady arm. Simms is a great prospect for the future. He got way too much flack in Texas and I think he could develop into a good starter in this league. Brian Griese ain't bad either as backup. Very solid depth here.

RB - Gonna go ahead and evaluate Alstott as a RB. When he gets back he's one of the best, if not the best short yardage back in the league. Michael Pittman has great hands out of the backfield, but doesn't provide much really running the ball. Charlie Gardner is in the same mold except I like his running skills more. Charlie just didn't get the chance in Oakland. He could be the pickup of the NFC South this year. There are alot of options here at RB, but nothing really awesome.

FB - Greg Comella is a good blocker from what I can remember from his days as a Titan. Don't know alot about Jameel, but I guess yall could tell me. Also drafted a rookie out of Darthmouth who is no doubt one of the smartest players in the NFL.

WR - Extremely deep WR corps like the Saints. Not explosive, but very good at picking up the yards ya need. Keenan McCardell has been underrated his whole career and is finally getting some love. he's a solid #1 for sure and the third best in the South IMO. Joey Galloway was explosive as a rookie and his first few years. Hasn't done crap with the Cowboys. Could resurrect his career with the Bucs and stretch defenses big time with that 4.3 speed. JJ was injured last year and was involved very much with his family last year. When he was on the field in 2002 he was a great possession guy to go to on 3rd to pick up the 1st down. Not only that, but he can also make some of the craziest catches in the NFL today. Charles Lee filled in admirably when Meshawn was deactivated last year. He'll be fine as a #4 for sure. Michael Clayton is a great kid and a true competitor. Best blocking WR to come out in years. Did great things at LSU and played a major role in their National Title. I have a huge soft spot for the guy and was literally crushed when yall took him. He's much like alot of your guys in that he lacks speed, but makes up for it with great hands. 5 Deep for sure. Not as explosive as the Saints or necessarily as talented, but they have great depth and alot of guys who can make clutch plays.

TE - Dilger is another one of those OK TEs in this league. Dudley was a huge bust, but has been serviceable for the Bucs. Not a strong point for the Bucs at all. Hopefully the TE from Yale can help out in the blocking spectrum.

OLine - Completely redid the OLine with good reason. The big thing is how fast the line comes together. Right away I think they'll be better than what you guys had last year. We'll just have to see. Todd Steussie was a great pickup. Deese wasn't bad either. Still have Oben to come off the bench if thats the direction they are going. Whittle is a good player and Stinchcomb (older brother of Jon) is an underrated guard. Nice depth grabbed in FA too.

Closing Thought - How good this offense becomes this season depends on how fast the OLine gels. They have alot of talent at WR and might have a resurgence at RB with Garner now in the mix. We'll just have to take a wait and see approach.


3. Panthers

QB - Jake Delhomme had some kind of season. I'm not really one to buy into all the hype, but this kid has moxie and is a winner period. He made some mistakes last year throwing untimely ints, but he was able to persevere and come through at clutch times. He did benefit alot from having WRs who attacked the ball in the air as he tends to throw it up at times. Still, with a year of experience he could develop into one of the better QBs in this league and has already lead his team to a Superbowl. Rodney Peete and Chris Weinke aren't great backups at all although they have starting experience. Not that bad for a week or two.

RB - The Panthers bread and butter. They have the best depth in the South no doubt with both Deshaun and Stephen. Stephen is a workhorse and Deshaun, when he gets in, seems every bit as able. Stephen was a monster last year behind that Panther O-Line. He is the center piece of that offense and what makes them so effective.

FB - Nick Goings and Brad Hoover make a good FB pair. They do a nice job when on the field plowing holes for Stephen and Deshaun.

WR - Steve Smith is a gamebreaker at WR. He's got everything you want besides size and is a clutch player. Second to Horn in the division IMO. Not only that, he's only 24. Muhsin while not the receiver he was in 1999 and 2000 is still a great option with nice hands. Ricky Proehl is a viable 3rd receiver when he gets on the field (which isn't much because Carolina hardly ever runs a spread package). Keary Colbert who was picked in the 2nd round shouldn't be forgotten either as he also has very nice hands. He could be the surprise WR out of the South. Donald Hayes provides OK depth, but nothing special. Could be four deep this year.

TE - Kris Mangum doesn't get any love. He doesn't really deserve much anyway. He's a good blocking TE and can pull down the occasional catch to move the chains. The Panthers don't utilize the TE position much in the passing game and this position is really weak in terms of pass catchers, but a very strong blocking unit.

OLine - If the Panthers hadn't lost 3 of their starters on the OLine I would have had them above the Bucs. One of the biggest reasons for their success last year was their offensive line and its dominance. Jordan Gross is a really smart player who has pro bowl ability. Claridge is a pretty damn good guard too. Tutan Reyes is a joke. Adam Meadows was a pretty good pickup also. Not too sure about this guy Brzezinski. Honestly don't know much about him. Not sure on the depth issue either.

Closing Thought - If they had kept together their offensive line I would probably have ranked them higher than Tampa. They just play a different style of ball control offense. They wear teams down and don't make alot of mistakes and I respect what they do down there. The lack of huge name #3 and #4 are moot points IMO as they hardly ever play out of a spread offense. Shoot, Jake was lucky to get more than 15 passes a game.

4. Falcons

QB - Michael Vick is not only the most exciting player in the game, he's also the guy that causes the most matchup problems (duh). He makes this vanilla excuse for an offense viable. No need to hype him more than he has been already.

RB - TJ Duckett and Warrick Dunn make an OK pair. They ran for 1300+ yards together splitting time. Duckett is your power back and Dunn is your scrappy runner. They aren't bad, just nothing special. They won't take over a game or really wear an opposing defense down. They will pick up a few yards here or there and most of the time fails to convert the 3rd. I'm not very high on the pair as you can see. Quincy Wilson was a pretty good pickup IMO. Nice depth, just not that overpowering take over the game back you want.

FB - Justin Griffith is a pretty good situational runner and not a bad blocker. Don't know much about George Lane.

WR - Peerless Price was a FA bust last year. Most of that can be contributed to the absence of Vick. I think he'll surprise and do alot better this year with Vick back and some added help not to mention the west coast offense being installed. Michael Jenkins will add some size to the lineup. He is a guy who is known for making some clutch catches. He should be solid, but don't expect too too much. Dez White and Finneran are alright as #3 and #4 but in a perfect world you'd at least have a guy that can stretch the field there. Not much to say about Atlanta's WR except average at best.

TE - Algae Crumpler is the best TE in the NFC South right now. He's a deep threat and a reliable blocker. Nice hands and causes lots of matchup problems for defensive cordinators. A threat and an asset to his team. Durable, but Atlanta is not well equipped to replace him if he were to go down though. Not good depth at all.

OLine - They were just really really bad last year. Not good at all. Can remember during the Saints game last year they were talking about hypnosis with Bob Whitfield. He had a bad year last year for sure. Hopefully for the Falcons he'll regain form. Todd McClure was a very good resign for the Falcons as he was one of their best last year. Todd Weiner isn't playing up to his contract period. They need a better overall performance from the group this year if they hope to be competitive.

Closing Thought - The only reason they will be out of the bottom 20 in offense is Vick and the matchup problems he will cause. I just don't like offenses with shaky offensive lines and this team has one for sure.

I can't disagree with much of what you said. I think all four teams can score points. Frankly, if you're going to a lot of three wideout sets you need three good CBs right? If Kelly is healthy and you team him with Barber and Edwards with Smith and Phillips at safety, I like the Bucs' ability to hold down the opposition the best. Now Atlanta is improving in this area. Put Scott with D. Hall and you've got a nice beginning of a good secondary. I'm not in love with some of the others. But it's a very competitive division because any of the four could win it. I don't think you could say that in any other division.

[Gooshdawg]

Bucs will most likely be 4th on that list. Patchwork, old offensive line. A QB that is almost 40, a RB that is injury prone. Keyshawn gone, Joey "dissappear" Galloway, Mike "fumble" Alstott and a rookie wideout doesnt help matters. No proven TE or proven depth at WR, QB or RB make matters worse. This offense is one injury away from one of the worst in the league. Thats assuming that Pittman doesnt go to jail btw.

Originally posted by Gooshdawg
Bucs will most likely be 4th on that list. Patchwork, old offensive line. A QB that is almost 40, a RB that is injury prone. Keyshawn gone, Joey "dissappear" Galloway, Mike "fumble" Alstott and a rookie wideout doesnt help matters. No proven TE or proven depth at WR, QB or RB make matters worse. This offense is one injury away from one of the worst in the league. Thats assuming that Pittman doesnt go to jail btw.

Favre is almost 40! Garner should do well with the Bucs, Mike doesn't fumble a lot, he breaks tackles, Galloway is a good WR, can stretch the field, Dilger and dudley are good, K-mac, Joey, Clayton, and maybe J.J. at WR, that good talent, Mike, Garner, and maybe pittman at rb, mike also at fb, one of bes FB's in the NFL, imo the best.

[original_bucfan]

I have to agree that in the South the Saints have the best offense, till about week 10, then they dissappear. They also have if not the worst the next to worse Defense. Its kind of neck to neck with the Falcons. That explains the fade in late seasons.

[backtobackbucs]

Originally posted by Gooshdawg
Bucs will most likely be 4th on that list. Patchwork, old offensive line. A QB that is almost 40, a RB that is injury prone. Keyshawn gone, Joey "dissappear" Galloway, Mike "fumble" Alstott and a rookie wideout doesnt help matters. No proven TE or proven depth at WR, QB or RB make matters worse. This offense is one injury away from one of the worst in the league. Thats assuming that Pittman doesnt go to jail btw.

Dude talk about Qb's who are almost 40 aka Bret Farve. Come you cant really think that about the bucs offense that is just insane to think we are one injury away from the worst in the legue. The only injury that would severly set us back would be Brad Johnson and in that case alot of teams would be "1 injury away from the worst offense in the legue".

[TheFalconArmy]

Originally posted by original_bucfan
I have to agree that in the South the Saints have the best offense, till about week 10, then they dissappear. They also have if not the worst the next to worse Defense. Its kind of neck to neck with the Falcons. That explains the fade in late seasons.

When have the Falcons faded in the late season?? This makes no sense at all...... In 2002, we made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and last years we ended the season 3-1......

[TheFalconArmy]

Originally posted by Gooshdawg
Bucs will most likely be 4th on that list. Patchwork, old offensive line. A QB that is almost 40, a RB that is injury prone. Keyshawn gone, Joey "dissappear" Galloway, Mike "fumble" Alstott and a rookie wideout doesnt help matters. No proven TE or proven depth at WR, QB or RB make matters worse. This offense is one injury away from one of the worst in the league. Thats assuming that Pittman doesnt go to jail btw.

I can't say I disagree with any of that......

[Lt. Dan]

There used to be a time when I could say who was going to be good before the season starts. I don't think it's possible any more. Heck, even the Falcons could be good next year.. The NFL has gotten to the point where even the most educated of opinions aren't worth much more than your most casual of fans. Anybody ever have a football pool at work where you spend all day filling your picks and then the blond girl comes along who knows nothing of football and just makes her picks in like 5 minutes based on which team wears her favorite colors? Guess what, she's probably going to win. That has happened to me. All the things posted in the title post make sense, but will probably be thrown out by week 3. It's a roller coaster and no one knows which way it's going to turn. I like it....It's way better than just assuming that either the 49ers of Cowboys are going to win it every year. However, it makes predicting a fools errand.

[Sublime]

I think its a toss up between Saints and Bucs.

Last year, stats wise, the Bucs had the best offense. A very close runner up (we're talking like 20 yards over the course of the entire season) was the Saints.

The Saints will be about the same, did the Buc's O get better, worse, the same?

Suprisingly the Falcon's offense only average about 10 yards per game better with Vick then without him. They've added a good WR for him, but I don't think its enough to compete for the top spot.

My rankings:
1. Bucs (I'm optimistic about the additions)
2. Saints (Will be close again)
3. Falcons
4. Panthers

I think only 300 yards over the whole season will seperate 1 from 4.

[J J]

lol, what's up Numb? I see you still have a lot of time to kill.

As was said, can't disagree with anything you said.

I hope you're right about Boo, I think the world of Crumpler. Boo is more in that Todd Heap mold, so I think you'll never really be able to compare the two.

Beyond the individual matchups, the Saints unit is put together the best just because of the overall speed at every position. We literally have 3 WR's who run a 4.3 and one is not Joe Horn. No one really knows how fast Deuce runs other than no one will race him.

I do agree with everyone saying, who knows what's going to happen. Every single team in this division could win it all, or be rock bottom. Makes it VERY interesting.

JJ

[AF Go Bucs]

I think the Bucs will be much better on offense than they were last year. I don't really care about rankings because they are usually for yards. I care about scoring points, time of possession and turnovers.

[TheFalconArmy]

Originally posted by johnnybuc
Anything that diminishes the BUCS ablities you AGREE with, yet anything remotely criticizing the Falcons in any way you vehemently DISAGREE with!


And you have the nerve to call ANY of us Homers!
You have SO MUCH to learn!

Step into our office............

<insert pot and kettle quote here>

Didn't the falcons have like the 4th or 5th ranked running offense in 2002 with Dunn,DUckett, and Vick?and no O-line at that? I think that people are strongly under scoring our offense in this thread.With a healty Vick this year and a dumbed down WCO(for first year reasons) thats proven top 10 material. The Falcons could be on top easy! For all the haters on the falcons O-line got 2 words for ya ALEX GIBBS! IF YOU DON"T KNOW......you will ....lol

[Numbskull]

Originally posted by Lt. Dan
There used to be a time when I could say who was going to be good before the season starts. I don't think it's possible any more. Heck, even the Falcons could be good next year.. The NFL has gotten to the point where even the most educated of opinions aren't worth much more than your most casual of fans. Anybody ever have a football pool at work where you spend all day filling your picks and then the blond girl comes along who knows nothing of football and just makes her picks in like 5 minutes based on which team wears her favorite colors? Guess what, she's probably going to win. That has happened to me. All the things posted in the title post make sense, but will probably be thrown out by week 3. It's a roller coaster and no one knows which way it's going to turn. I like it....It's way better than just assuming that either the 49ers of Cowboys are going to win it every year. However, it makes predicting a fools errand.

I agree. Just idle speculation of what each player brings to a team's offense. Its the offseason so what else are we gonna do? This has nothing to do with the final standings at the end of the year.

[Mike Damone]

Just too hard to say with free agency these days. Dan hit it on the head - You just never know.

HOWEVER, I feel quite confident in saying it is, in fact, our Bucs who have the best offensive mind running/coaching the show. Therefore, I'll go with Tampa.

[Lt. Dan]

Originally posted by Numbskull
I agree. Just idle speculation of what each player brings to a team's offense. Its the offseason so what else are we gonna do? This has nothing to do with the final standings at the end of the year.

Nothing wrong with that....I meant nothing against your post. It just cracks me up how heated the discussion get when everyone is just speculating any way. Like any of us have an idea. Don't stop posting it, though because I love to read it.

[Gman_NC]

The saints have a load of talent on offense so I would have to go with them. They just dont seem to be well coached though. There is no excuse for them to not be a playoff team every year.

[Chunko]

Originally posted by TheFalconArmy
When have the Falcons faded in the late season?? This makes no sense at all...... In 2002, we made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs and last years we ended the season 3-1......

I think he was talking about the Saints there TFA.

dont be fooled about the falcons receivers, I think with the new offense, they are going to be very successful, even with our backup QB last season, we usually put alot of points on the board, atlanta has to worry more about its defense than its offense, but the saints will give atlanta a run for the best offense in the nfc south this season.

[Wild John]

Originally posted by TheFalconArmy
<insert pot and kettle quote here>

It's very hard to say who has the best O in this division. You could make a case for just about any order. The Bucs have the best scheme and the best coach. The Falcons have the best player. The Saints have the most talent. And the Panthers have the most consistent formula, and as of recent, the most success. In terms of where they'll be ranked in total O next year, I'd guess it'll be Saints, Bucs, Falcons, Panthers.

Originally posted by Gman_NC
There is no excuse for them to not be a playoff team every year.

Heh, that's what we say, too.

Originally posted by Leeroy
It's very hard to say who has the best O in this division. You could make a case for just about any order. The Bucs have the best scheme and the best coach. The Falcons have the best player. The Saints have the most talent. And the Panthers have the most consistent formula, and as of recent, the most success. In terms of where they'll be ranked in total O next year, I'd guess it'll be Saints, Bucs, Falcons, Panthers.

think you got the bucs and falcons in the wrong spots

Originally posted by magic-Bucsfan
Favre is almost 40! Garner should do well with the Bucs, Mike doesn't fumble a lot, he breaks tackles, Galloway is a good WR, can stretch the field, Dilger and dudley are good, K-mac, Joey, Clayton, and maybe J.J. at WR, that good talent, Mike, Garner, and maybe pittman at rb, mike also at fb, one of bes FB's in the NFL, imo the best.

While I don't agree necessarily with the overall point and tone of the post you're replying to, the man has some valid points. Garner MIGHT do well with the Bucs, but as a ten-year veteran running back with over 1900 total carries/receptions whose production has declined four out of the past five years, it's not a sure thing. Alstott does break tackles; he also fumbles more often per carry than most running backs. Galloway had a few good seasons in the Nineties--he's been just "OK" since then. He is fast, though...and you're right--someone will have to cover him if he runs a 40-yard fly pattern every play. Dilger and Dudley are OK..."good" by "old school" TE standards, but just "OK" in the day of Gonzalez, Heap, Crumpler, Shockey, etc. The wideouts as a unit should work out pretty good...nobody "scary-gifted" in the bunch, but guys who know how the game is played. I still think you guys are hurting at RB if you're totally relying on a Garner/Pittman combo...but the one thing that Gruden DID done well when in Oakland was to generate some semblance of a running game without particularly talented or gifted running backs. Of course, I think he had a better offensive line while he was in Oakland than he has now.

But as I said at the beginning--I don't necessarily accept the original poster visions of total doom and gloom for Tampa's offense.

Just want to say that if Vick stays healthy we will have an explosive offense. Our O-Line will be better (Alex Gibbs). Atlanta had a top 5 offense 2 years ago w/ Brian Finneran as the #1 guy and a coach who ran an 1800's system. We have added Price, Jenkins, and White... our overall WR core is way better as our O-Line will be as well.

[Lt. Dan]

Originally posted by Puddinhead
...whose production has declined four out of the past five years....

That isn't accurate. His numbers were down last year, but he was playing with a bad knee that eventually had him miss the end of the season. The 3 years prior to that he had just under a 1000 yards rushing and the same with receiving.

Lot of good opinions in here. Here's mine...

1. Panthers
2. Falcons
3. Saints
4. Bucs

I see the Panthers are still not getting respect. Delhomme proved a lot last year and it was his first year as a starter and will only get better. They still have a solid running game with Stephen Davis.

With a healthy Vick this year I think their offense with a new scheme will really turn some heads.

The Saints with Aarron Brooks are just too inconsistent and they falter late in the year. Make the playoffs and show me something.

The Bucs have a lot of new guys on offense. May need time to gel.

Just my humble opinion.

[Lt. Dan]

Originally posted by FALCLEE
The Bucs have a lot of new guys on offense. May need time to gel.

The same could be said of the Falcons who are installing a whole new system on offense...could take some time for players to learn it. Especially a QB who's never been known for his ability to read a defense. There could be a learning curve.....

...at least the new faces on the Bucs are all West Coast offense guys and are also veterans. That should make the learning curve shorter. I know Garner won't have any trouble with the offense.

Originally posted by Lt. Dan
That isn't accurate. His numbers were down last year, but he was playing with a bad knee that eventually had him miss the end of the season. The 3 years prior to that he had just under a 1000 yards rushing and the same with receiving.

So that makes 2 guys you signed w/ bad knees?