Keys to us beating the Rams tonight......

[Patrick McIrish]

- We must pound the ball, Rams are 29th against the run, we've got to at least present the ability to run to keep them honest. Doing this will open things up a little for guys like Lee and Clayton.

- No turnovers. When you turn the ball over you are either giving up a good shot at points or severely shrinking the field for the Rams offense. They don't need the help. On top of that you are putting the defense back on the field. Winning time of possession often comes hand in hand with turnovers. We can't win tonight if our defense doesn't win the war of turnovers.

- Containing Torry Holt. This guy averages almost 150 receiving yards against us!

- PRESSURE UP FRONT! If we harrass Bulger we will get our hands on some balls, considering our defense catches balls better than most backfields I like our chances for a few picks. It all starts up front though, without pressure they might score 40 points tonight on us.


To sum up, we need to take the air out of the football. Run the rock as much as possible until their safeties are forced to give them a hand on run support, then as they creep in let's begin to throw more. When we do throw don't wait for 3rd down, we are always much more successful throwing on 1st down. Play the game "backwards" once you establish the run. We win the turnover battle and play special teams well and we have a chance. We play well against the Rams and no doubt should be able to score on them. With our defense you always have a shot when you can hit the scoreboard. If we get behind early and are forced to be one dimensional it could be a long night though. Still I'm going to play Mr Optimist and call it Bucs 27-24.

I agree. The question mark will be whether or not the O line will open holes for Pittman. I'd like to see White step up and take some more of the load. He looked very good in preseason but fizzled off fast.

Archuletta is expected to start tonight, despite a lingering back problem, so it will be interesting to see how he does.

Good Points.

I have been saying for weeks that we need to pound the rock.

Last week I thought Gruden abandoned the run to early again. We need to control the clock. Keep Bulger and the Rams O on the bench.

Pat, we did not blitz much last week (if at all). Do you think we will blitz more tonight?

[Bucin' Around]

I'd have to agree with all your points. I think the Bucs need to get on top early. Then the D can just finish of Bulger. That's the D's strong point (With the expection of a certain game that I will not mention...)

[backtobackbucs]

good post PG opps i mean Patrick

I think that score will be about right but not sure if we are going to be the one on the up side. I sure hope so though.

GO BUCS

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by bucsfan1955--2

Pat, we did not blitz much last week (if at all). Do you think we will blitz more tonight?

I hope not. Reason for that is we won't need to blitz much if the front four is getting pressure. In days past with Sapp, Rice, Booger, White etc.... we got so much pressure with just those 4 we didn't have to blitz very often, as a result when we did it was tough for them to be ready. Not to mention if you get great pressure with just those front 4 you have a lot of options defensively. So I say no I hope we don't blitz a lot but only because I am hoping for a great game from our defensive line. Don't forget that each time you blitz you not only leave yourself vulnerable, they have more film on what you are doing. Blitz all game and you will usually end up getting burned a few times as they learn to pick it up and make their reads. That's why I much prefer not to blitz at all if we don't have to.

These days we aren't getting the same push, be it because of Sapp or whatever we've needed to blitz more and more to get the great pressure of old, when we don't we're giving their QB too much time. I don't know if we will blitz more or not, I imagine we will continue to shoot that off corner (like Ronde) but haven't seen as much straight up the gut blitzes. Not getting that great push up front is one of the biggest differences I see this year on the team. Amazing how good your corners look when you get pressure up front, when you don't get pressure then you are just hanging them out to dry, especially with a speed team like the Rams. NFL QB's are too good to allow them to stand back there unfettered and look through their reads/check downs.....

Originally Posted by backtobackbucs

good post PG opps i mean Patrick

I think that score will be about right but not sure if we are going to be the one on the up side. I sure hope so though.

GO BUCS

funny stuff Butt-2-Butt







here's how simple it is folks.............. knock down Bulger.....all night long.

[backtobackbucs]

Originally Posted by PG

funny stuff Butt-2-Butt







here's how simple it is folks.............. knock down Bulger.....all night long.

Ohhhh come on now PG im just messing around. I actully was craking up when i sawl Butt-2-Butt. You seem to be a little testy latley what gives.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by backtobackbucs

You seem to be a little testy latley what gives.

1-4 might have something to do with it. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.....

[southernbird]

I'd like to see RB and BK play man with Holt and Bruce...just to see who wins the match up.

We're on astroturf tonight, so use Alstott and take advantage of the added speed that turf provides. I think that's part of the reason why he hasn't been doing anything. He's older and slower, but when he gets a chance to build up speed, he's a steamroller. Maybe the turf will help, if he gets the ball. I think him and Comella should be in there every time we have "2nd and short" or "3rd and 1" scenarios. If the Rams are a weak run defense, we should beat them up as much as possible. Pittman needs to go off early in the game, or else they'll have Griese throw it 50 times. It's up to the O-line to make some good gaps and Pittman to score early. Otherwise, it's gonna be a shootout.

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

I hope not. Reason for that is we won't need to blitz much if the front four is getting pressure. In days past with Sapp, Rice, Booger, White etc.... we got so much pressure with just those 4 we didn't have to blitz very often, as a result when we did it was tough for them to be ready. Not to mention if you get great pressure with just those front 4 you have a lot of options defensively. So I say no I hope we don't blitz a lot but only because I am hoping for a great game from our defensive line.

These days we aren't getting the same push, be it because of Sapp or whatever we've needed to blitz more and more to get the great pressure of old, when we don't we're giving their QB too much time. I don't know if we will blitz more or not, I imagine we will continue to shoot that off corner (like Ronde) but haven't seen as much straight up the gut blitzes. Not getting that great push up front is one of the biggest differences I see this year on the team. Amazing how good your corners look when you get pressure up front, when you don't get pressure then you are just hanging them out to dry, especially with a speed team like the Rams. NFL QB's are too good to allow them to stand back there unfettered and look through their reads/check downs.....

That is the problem. The front 4 have not been doing squat. I really would like to see a big game out of them also. If we can get pressure with the front 4 and drop 7 then it is our game to win.

I am expecting Wyms to have a big game. Hopefully Booger will show up as well.

[Patrick McIrish]

MNF: Bucs-Rams to take it to the turf
Andrew Folkes
covers.com

It might sound strange to hear this about a Buccaneers-Rams matchup, but wagers on this week’ edition of Monday Night Football will be won (and lost) in the running game.

Tampa Bay and St. Louis each have quarterbacks that are coming off hot games, but bettors should consider the fact that both clubs have defenses that can shut the other’s passing game down, meaning victory will go to the team that can get the most yardage on the ground.

Tampa Bay’s ability to shut down an aerial attack is well known throughout the league. The Bucs rank third in the NFL in passing defense allowing 143.8 yards per game. They’ve allowed only five touchdowns though the air, have three picks and are the only team in the NFL that’s holding opposing pivots to under 50 percent in completions.


St. Louis still ranks in the bottom half of the league against the pass, but the defense looks like it starting to get its act together when it comes to halting air attacks.

The Rams held Seattle’s Matt Hasselbeck to 216 yards and a 57.1 percent completion rate last Sunday, the worst numbers he’s put up since facing the Bucs in Week 2. The defensive unit really started clicking in the second half, holding the Seahawks to 85 yards.

The St. Louis defense is becoming much less predictable and is now more adept at disguising blitzes. With Tampa Bay not really posing much of a deep threat, the Rams should be able to keep Bucs' QB Brian Griese on his toes.

Griese came off the bench in New Orleans last week and completed all but three of his 19 passing attempts to lead the Bucs to a 20-17 victory. Griese gets his first start since being released by the Dolphins last year.

With the Rams blitzes keeping Griese in check and the Bucs proven passing defense going to work on Bulger, the running game will be the critical offensive element in this contest and that’s where the Rams have a distinct edge.

St. Louis is by no means a powerhouse when it comes to the run, but its 116.4 rushing yards per game looks much more promising that Tampa’s 81, an average that’s only bested in its pathetic-ness by the Miami Dolphins.

Aside from Marshall Faulk who's netting 72.8 yards per game, the Rams have running back Steven Jackson who's silently been picking up steam. Jackson’s significantly increased his yardage in each of his last four games and had a season-high 64 last week in Seattle. Jackson is currently gaining 6.9 yards a carry, and will be utilized against a Bucs team that allows over 130 on the ground per contest.

St. Louis is particularly weak against ground assaults, ranking 29th in the league in rushing defense. Running backs Michael Pittman, Charlie Garner and Mike Alstott are the Bucs best weapons in this area, but only Pittman is getting more than four yards per carry and neither of the three has recorded a TD.

The only thing that’s guaranteed about this game is that it’s sure to give bettors fits. Again, the Rams have a definite advantage in the running game, but are laying 6 1/2 points to the Bucs. You’ve gotta think that Marc Bulger will chip in at some point despite Tampa ability to stop the pass, as he’s scored at least a touchdown in each of his starts this season.

But although Tampa doesn’t possess a true rushing threat, either of the Bucs mediocre RBs could have a break out game against St. Louis’ flimsy running ‘D’ and compensate for whatever Bulger manages to contribute.

The total on this contest is set at 41 1/2.

[Pewter Warship]

Originally Posted by Waterboy

I agree. The question mark will be whether or not the O line will open holes for Pittman. I'd like to see White step up and take some more of the load. He looked very good in preseason but fizzled off fast.

Archuletta is expected to start tonight, despite a lingering back problem, so it will be interesting to see how he does.

If our O-line can't open holes against a 29th ranked run defense, we have major issues IMO. It should still remain a focal point for this offense to move the chains, especially since running the ball opens brings more effectiveness for the Bucs with the play-action.

Keep an eye on Little, as he'll be lined up against RT Walker, hopefully Walker will be able to hold him off long enough to throw the ball.

As far as the Rams offense goes, well if we rattle Bulger quickly it is going to be a long night for the Rams. It is also critical that we contain Jackson and Faulk, both have done decent this year in the ypc column.

[backtobackbucs]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

1-4 might have something to do with it. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.....

Good point..........just seemed a little more testy with my remark than i thought was necessary. Oh well its all fun and games.

except for the loosing part....that just sucks

Go bucs 24-21

Originally Posted by southernbird

I'd like to see RB and BK play man with Holt and Bruce...just to see who wins the match up.

Yeah, and I'd like to see Vick play the Patriots defense without an offensive line... just to see who wins the match up.

[Pewter Warship]

Originally Posted by southernbird

I'd like to see RB and BK play man with Holt and Bruce...just to see who wins the match up.

You'll see more of it from Kelly, then Barber. Kelly is better at man coverage then Barber is. Though I think the whole secondary is going to be busy tonight in order to shut down the passing game.

Hey, how about a Kenyatta holding penalties pool?

I think he'll get 5!

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by WEBB37

We're on astroturf tonight, so use Alstott and take advantage of the added speed that turf provides. I think that's part of the reason why he hasn't been doing anything. He's older and slower, but when he gets a chance to build up speed, he's a steamroller. Maybe the turf will help, if he gets the ball. I think him and Comella should be in there every time we have "2nd and short" or "3rd and 1" scenarios. If the Rams are a weak run defense, we should beat them up as much as possible. Pittman needs to go off early in the game, or else they'll have Griese throw it 50 times. It's up to the O-line to make some good gaps and Pittman to score early. Otherwise, it's gonna be a shootout.

I'm not as big an Allstott fan as some of you but this could be a game where we could use him effectively, heck they are giving up 150 yards a game on the ground. Just off the top of my head I think power backs do create problems for this defense. Love likes speed on defense, to combat speed you don't always use speed, you use power. Always amazed me to see teams try and run wide on speed defenses, that's playing right into their hands. You got great speed on the other side of the ball RUN IT RIGHT DOWN THEIR FRIGGIN' MOUTHS!!!!

Make no mistake, if we can't run the ball tonight we can't win this game. In a shoot out we may score some points but have no shot at winning the game IMO.

Originally Posted by WEBB37

Hey, how about a Kenyatta holding penalties pool?

I think he'll get 5!

THAT is very funny........and a great idea. It totally deserves it's own thread. That's the kind of things.....if done weekly......the local papers would pick up on. Make the thread man...........too funny.

[Pewter Warship]

Originally Posted by WEBB37

Hey, how about a Kenyatta holding penalties pool?

I think he'll get 5!

Actually Walker didn't get any last week when he came out and played, and he was lined up against Grant who was N.O.'s speed rusher. I just think he does a better job at RT then LT.

Also recall when he played LT last year, that is where most of the penalties came from.

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

St. Louis still ranks in the bottom half of the league against the pass, but the defense looks like it starting to get its act together when it comes to halting air attacks.

The Rams held Seattle’s Matt Hasselbeck to 216 yards and a 57.1 percent completion rate last Sunday, the worst numbers he’s put up since facing the Bucs in Week 2.

that wins useless stat of the week. the seahawks only had 1 game in between the bucs and the rams, and that was vs the niners. not exactly evidence of a trend in pass defense.

but i agree with the premise of the article - the team that runs better has the edge. stick with the run, even if the yards don't come. the second-biggest difference in last week's win (obviously the mobile QB's with arm strength was the biggest) was that they expected us to run the ball, and the anticipation of balance gave us tons of flexibility in our playcalling.

asking gruden to be an "offensive genius" when injuries (between garner & galloway, entire packages are now useless, and i'm sure he'd drawn up plenty of k-mac plays too) & lack of talent (i know your take pat, it's his own doing) are shutting down half his playbook is a little like asking randy moss to be a gamebreaker with one arm in a sling. a defense that's respecting the run gives him some of that leverage back. pittman's averaging 4 ypc again this year, let the man roll.

Originally Posted by Pewter Warship

Actually Walker didn't get any last week when he came out and played, and he was lined up against Grant who was N.O.'s speed rusher. I just think he does a better job at RT then LT.

Also recall when he played LT last year, that is where most of the penalties came from.

I don't care if he gets one for saving the QB's neck. I just don't wanna here his damn number all night, ya know?

[Patrick McIrish]

Wasn't just holding penalties either, wasn't he accumulating hands to the face penalties pretty rapidly as well? I can recall at least 3 of those in a very limited time and those are big 15 yarders. Saying that I still like the guy and thought it was a dang shame they brought in someone to start over him. Word is from inside this is another player that does not get along with Chuck and they have their problems. Expect him to be gone for little to nothing in return eventually......

[Q-man]

Run the ball, create TOs, have no TOs, stop the run, defend the pass.
Focus, tackle one on one.
Do all those and the Bucs win!

go bucs........beat the Rams on MNF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tampabayfan]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Wasn't just holding penalties either, wasn't he accumulating hands to the face penalties pretty rapidly as well? I can recall at least 3 of those in a very limited time and those are big 15 yarders. Saying that I still like the guy and thought it was a dang shame they brought in someone to start over him. Word is from inside this is another player that does not get along with Chuck and they have their problems. Expect him to be gone for little to nothing in return eventually......

Does Gruden get along with any players? Yes there is a big difference in getting a holding penalty and personal fouls for hands to the face. Holding penalties can hurt offensive momentum, but if the guy is protecting the qb, then so be it. Personal fouls are just unneccesary and totally walker's fault. Glad to see he is improving, but it really is a waste of talent for him to be on the bench.

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by BucINT20

asking gruden to be an "offensive genius" when injuries (between garner & galloway, entire packages are now useless, and i'm sure he'd drawn up plenty of k-mac plays too) & lack of talent (i know your take pat, it's his own doing) are shutting down half his playbook ........

Yes you are right I do think a big majority of our problems have been self-inflicted. I see things differently from most people though, while you all are genuinely excited that "Gruden doesn't take no crap" and we have Keenan sitting out and Key thrown off the team, I see two situations that has really hurt us. And no, a coach doesn't have to kiss the players butt to get them to play, he just needs to do enough that they know he's in charge ultimately and that they need to go out and do their jobs. These two and his personnel moves have just crippled this team but I am still pulling for him to make it work.

We don't need an offensive genius, just an AVERAGE offense would do wonders. At 13.8 points a game we are 31st in the NFL, asking for an improvement surely isn't unreasonable?

[Patrick McIrish]

Originally Posted by LABucs

Bulger is like Warner, cannot handle pressure, especially up the middle...I don't care is Monte decides to blitz 8 and leave three in coverage...Bulger won't have any idea what the hell is going on out there...And keep it up all night long.

Also, I believe thir LB's are a bit weak in coverage...In 3 Wr sets, Gruden needs to put Clayton in the slot and get him matched up against Robert Thomas or Pisa whatever his last name is...Same with Pittman, get them out in space against the LB's...

As far as running the ball...Must be RIGHT AT THEM, not too many pitches and sweeps..More Traps and dives...Even some counters, to use their speed in pursuit against them.

Wow, good post. Finally this guy has some decent thoughts, maybe my postings aren't all for naught after all.

TampaBay - I agree with you, I can tell you are one of the few females who have played the game. The thing with holding "being acceptable to protect the QB" is true but you can't go overboard with it. Those 10 yard'ers can really stall out a drive. After a while you need to fix the problem that is getting you to the point where you must hold to protect him. Usually if you are getting beat on the O-line it's because your footwork is not up to par, especially for tackles.

Absolutely right on the personal fouls, no excuse for that crap. Especially when a team is struggling to begin with. If I remember correctly it seemed Kenyatta would take them at the worst possible time. Not that there is ever a good time for a personal foul. Last week when Cox got one for taunting when we stopped them on the kick-off return at their 8 yard line for example, these penalties are unnecessary and just deflate the entire team. This is another area we need to do better at, we used to be amongst the best in fewest penalties under the Coach Dungy era, that trend has disappeared the last few years.

[DragnSlayrF31]

Originally Posted by tampabayfan

Does Gruden get along with any players? Yes there is a big difference in getting a holding penalty and personal fouls for hands to the face. Holding penalties can hurt offensive momentum, but if the guy is protecting the qb, then so be it. Personal fouls are just unneccesary and totally walker's fault. Glad to see he is improving, but it really is a waste of talent for him to be on the bench.

And I absolutely HATE it when the defense gets personal foul penalties. What the hell is up with that? Our defense knows better - we don't have to actually GIVE them the damn yardage. Make them earn it.

[Pewter Warship]

Originally Posted by Patrick McIrish

Wasn't just holding penalties either, wasn't he accumulating hands to the face penalties pretty rapidly as well? I can recall at least 3 of those in a very limited time and those are big 15 yarders. Saying that I still like the guy and thought it was a dang shame they brought in someone to start over him. Word is from inside this is another player that does not get along with Chuck and they have their problems. Expect him to be gone for little to nothing in return eventually......

Keep in mind that most of those penalties came when he was dealing with a team's speed rusher, especially when he was lined up at LT. Though tracking back through the recent past with some of the games, Walker has done decent enough to win the job over Stuessie.

I honestly don't know if I have read anything in regards to Walker being upset with Gruden in particular. I know that Muir wasn't pleased with him last year, but then again what is that saying about Walker's ability? IMO Muir should not have been retained beyond last year. Otherwise, all I've heard was some mild complaining from Walker before the start of training camp about it, and then he showed up to work and has done decent throughout the whole time. Hopefully he continues to better himself, for purposes of retainment for next year.